State Police To Pay $1 Million In Hamley Shooting
Agency Admits No Wrongdoing; Family Agrees Not To Sue
Last updated Monday, February 26, 2007 8:23 PM CST in News
By Don Dailey
The Morning News
SPRINGDALE -- The Arkansas State Police will pay $1 million in a settlement agreement to the estate of Joseph Erin Hamley who was shot and killed by a state trooper last year in a case of mistaken identity.
The State Police admitted no wrongdoing, and the Hamley family agreed the settlement would satisfy all claims against the state.
The agreement set several stipulations the State Police must meet, the first of which was an appropriation bill for the money filed Monday in the Legislature.
If the bill is signed into law and the appropriation funded, the money would be given to the State Police. The State Police would then have to submit the settlement agreement for approval by the Department of Finance and Administration and the appropriate committees of the Legislature, before the money could be paid to Hamley's estate, said State Police spokesman Bill Sadler.
Erin Hamley's mother, Mary Hamley, would not discuss the settlement when reached by phone Monday.
"I can't go into that," was all she would say concerning the agreement, which was accepted in probate proceedings and sealed by a judge in Washington County on Feb. 15. Probate case files are normally open to the public.
A copy of the agreement was provided by the Arkansas State Police.
Mary Hamley's Fayetteville attorney W.H. Taylor did not immediately return several messages left at his office Monday.
Hamley, 21, who had cerebral palsy, never learned to read and had difficulty communicating.
State Trooper Larry Norman shot Hamley on the side of U.S. 412, west of Springdale, the morning of March 7, thinking the disabled man was Michigan prison escapee Adam Leadford. A Benton County grand jury indicted Norman in April on a misdemeanor negligent homicide charge.
The grand jury said in its report that Hamley did not obey Norman and four other police officers who responded to a possible sighting of Leadford.
He laid on his back on the ground, and Norman shot him with a shotgun as Hamley moved his arm toward his body, possibly in an effort to roll onto his stomach, the report said.
The report said Norman was on the scene for less than a minute and the lack of communication among the officers was troubling.
Sadler said that as a result of the shooting, the State Police doubled to eight the number of training hours troopers and recruits must complete in dealing with the mentally impaired.
Leadford was captured after a two-county, high-speed chase about nine hours after the Hamley shooting. He had eluded police for three days.
Police chased him into Wal-Mart Supercenter on Thompson Street in Springdale where he was shot in the face by a Springdale police officer and arrested.
Leadford was sentenced last month to 30 years in prison for his actions in Benton County. He was sentenced to six years in prison on charges in Washington County.
What's Up
Negligent Homicide Trial
Former Arkansas State Trooper Larry Norman faces one charge of misdemeanor negligent homicide in the March 2006 death of Erin Hamley.
Norman's trial has been postponed twice, and a pretrial hearing is now planned March 26 before Benton County Senior Circuit Judge Tom Keith.
Norman was granted medical retirement last summer due to the "enormous psychological overlay" of the incident, his attorney, John Everett of Fayetteville, has said.
If found guilty, Norman could face up to one year in jail and a $1,000 fine.
Source: Staff Report
The Morning News' Doug Thompson and Ron Wood contributed to this report.
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Reader Comments (350 comment(s))
The following comments are provided by readers and are the sole responsibility of their authors. The Morning News does not review comments before their publication, nor do we guarantee their accuracy. By publishing a comment here you agree to abide by our comment policy. If you see a comment that violates our policy, please notify the web editor.
uneducated wrote on Feb 27, 2007 3:34 AM:
" I totally agree with disappointed!!! I have a family member and come from a long line of family members who were cops!! We do not know all the facts from that day, and I am sure that no one knows the guilt or the feelings that Trooper Larry Norman and his family feel. It was a terrible tragedy that happened that day, and that officer will carry it with him the rest of his life. Cops go out everyday and make a difference, they are there for each and everyone of us in our time of need. So, all of you that are judging now think about that the next time you call 911. Until you know the facts just SHUT UP!!!! "
DOC wrote on Feb 27, 2007 6:21 AM:
" I agree with Del. All Norman may get is 1 year in jail and a $1000 fine. Not much for taking a life. Who needs a trial, it was witnessed by how many other cops? "
EXSTATIC!!!! wrote on Feb 27, 2007 7:17 AM:
" I know this family and no one needs this money more than them. I dont care about our tax dollars at least this will be going for something needed. This families only treat was to WALK to mcdonalds one saturday a month for breakfast!!!! I hate it that one of the kids were killed but I am so happy for them that they will recieve this! One of the kids were in Iraq serving when this happened! I am on cloud 9 this morning! No, it isnt that I am close enough to this family to get any of the money. I was a custodian for springdale schools and the boy in Iraq when he was little would help me clean the cafeteria instead of going to recess. He is such a sweetheart! Go ahead and be negative if you must but sometimes we dont see the entire situation! "
EXSTATIC!!!! wrote on Feb 27, 2007 7:22 AM:
" Also my son works in law enforcement and If he was in the same situation I dont know what he would do. That policeman did not know if this guy was dangerous and with him being ALONE, MENTAL, and on the side of the road and acting strange he may haved looked like he was going for his gun or something. I say dont be too quick to judge unless you are in the same position. If you feel that the police arent doing a good enough job ...then go do it for them.
I do so hate it for that family though that they lost a dear family member and the money wont ever compensate for that. I can see all sides on this except for the person that is judging someone else. I say we let God do that. "
arkie wrote on Feb 27, 2007 8:03 AM:
" well guys, I hate to break the news to you but when the ASP hands out a million instead of going to court? Do you think they could have been in the wrong. Go back and read the reports. This cop did everything wrong he could. He was told by the officer in charge to stay on the road and help with traffic. If he had done that would this be an issue? Think about it. "
BCR wrote on Feb 27, 2007 8:04 AM:
" What was this severely handicapped young man doing on a busy hiway like 412 without assistance or supervision? If his mother knew he could not associate with the public, why was he alone? I am in total agreement with disappointed. Cops need to be judged by other cops, or members in law enforcement. This was a very hot situation, with a manhunt for an armed felon who had been seen in the area in progress. IT'S ALSO GREAT TO KNOW THAT A COOL MILLION WILL MAKE THE PAIN ALL GO AWAY!!! "
This really is so sad wrote on Feb 27, 2007 8:27 AM:
" No one but Larry Norman can tell you what he is going through now, and I assure you he is living in his own personal hell. Do you honestly believe that he wanted to do that. This policeman was a career officer. The other thing you have to consider is that the young man would have and could not have ever made a million dollars in his lifetime. He was out when he should not have been. His family, who knew of his condition has as much cupability as the officer. No one walks around with a sign saying, Don't Shoot, I am mentally challenged!. Before you are ready to lock this officer up and throw away the key, you need to remember, that he has spent a majority of his adult life protecting our streets. "
Amazing wrote on Feb 27, 2007 9:06 AM:
" Of all you people who are so quick to judge, I just want to know how many of you were on the scene?????????????
Justice will be served in the judical system... Thank God for that, I think most of you would hang Norman without a fair trial. "
to KM wrote on Feb 27, 2007 9:08 AM:
" And you were there as an eyewitness? You saw this unjustice unfold? YES, you are in danger of being shot by the police if you do not obey what they tell you to do, and act in a suspicious manner that could endanger lives. Yes, this young man was mentally handicapped, but the officer didn't know that. He saw a possible suspect acting in a dangerous manner, not obeying his commands. He shouldn't have been on the street alone without a guardian. "
Drayden wrote on Feb 27, 2007 9:26 AM:
" I knew the Hamley family and let me tell you all this much, if you had ever seen Eirn in public there was NO MISTAKE that he was handicapped. He had a set routine of where he went and what he did daily, he went to a convenience store for snacks and then to a park to "hang out" which was all within a short distance from his home. This was the norm for him. Obviously something or someone had to have taken him all the way out there. And for whoever "The real crime is", well they say if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all. There are over 100 bad words I am thinking of to describe you. What happened was a horrible tragedy. But ignoring direct orders from the policeman that was already on the scene, and posing for pictures instead of getting immediate medical attention (going on what was released in the media), something was not right in that Troopers mind. It seems he was only wanting the glory of catching a criminal and was all too trigger happy to listen to orders. And for anyone saying that Erin wasn't following the officer's orders needs to look up C.P. and understand his complications. And how would you like to be reminded constantly of how your child died? Wouldn't you want to just settle and get it all over with and grieve in peace too? "
dee wrote on Feb 27, 2007 9:33 AM:
" I don't know what happened that day on the highway. I feel for both families. However, I do understand that there were other police officers there who did not feel the need to shoot this man. I think this case would have been much less troubling if Mr. Norman would have obeyed the other officer's commands and would have been on the scene for more than a minute or so. He didn't obey policies set up by the department. The other officers had been on the scene longer and had obviously had more time to assess the situation. Those other officers did not shoot the man. I hate that this happened because I trust and appreciate most police officers. However, in this case, it seems as if one of them didn't make the best decisions and a young man is dead. If this was a case where all the officers feared for their life and more than one shot him, then maybe the outcome of the grand jury would have been different. And to the person above who said that cops should only be tried by cops? That's silly. THey have to obey the law, too. Does that mean that fathers who shoot their daughters' abusers should only be tried by other fathers? Should doctors who make mistakes only be tried by other doctors? "
CC wrote on Feb 27, 2007 11:31 AM:
" Norman was on the scene for less than one minute before he killed this innocent person, while ignoring the direction of his superiors. His adrenaline was going and he thought he was going to be the hero. I know there are good cops out there but I doubt very much this is one of them. Unless they all defy orders and act above the law.... "
Incredibly Rediculous wrote on Feb 27, 2007 12:27 PM:
" I think that it is incredibly REDICULOUS that the mother of this young man did not even know where he was, she had not even seen him since 10 pm the night before this happened. (according to the media) I can not believe that she can (without guilt) accept the 1 million dollars!! All the money in the world will not bring him back or change the fact that she was so IRRESPONSIBLE that she did not know where her child was!!! Trooper Norman will have to live with this the rest of his life and I think that is justice enough. It is mind boggling to me that NWA does not want law enforcement in their area to do their job! "
Stop blaming the family wrote on Feb 27, 2007 1:12 PM:
" Why do some people insist on attacking the victim and the victim's family? Let the haters' spelling ineptitude reveal their level of intelligence. Norman was a bad cop; he's gone. For every cop like him, there are scores of good cops who follow the rules and follow orders. "
to stop blaming wrote on Feb 27, 2007 1:45 PM:
" We blame the family because for some reason in today's society, no one wants to take blame for their own stupidity, and the really stupid ones expect the rest of us to pay the price for the pain caused by their own neglect. "the innocent victim" junk is getting old. I am sure the pain this family is suffering is very deep. BUT, I am also sure that the cool-mil will ease some of that. The cop was wrong, he's off the force. The mother was stupid, and we pay her a million. That really makes a lot of sense. "
Disabled people have rights too wrote on Feb 27, 2007 2:14 PM:
" Just because this teenager was disabled doesn't mean he can be locked up in his room or in a house. If any of you people are familiar with people with disabilities, you would know that you help them work toward independence, or at least as much as they can attain. If his mother had kept him locked up against his will, don't you think the state would have charged her with a crime? "
TRAVESTY wrote on Feb 27, 2007 2:48 PM:
" Help them work toward independence??? By letting him wander alone on a MAJOR US HIGHWAY??? Come on! I think we would all agree that there are ways of helping the disabled work toward achieving their maximum potential without giving them complete freedom to wander around unsupervised. It is obvious if his own mother had not had contact with him since 10 p.m. the night before that she wasn't taking her responsibility to care for him (or to provide a qualified caretaker) very seriously. I hope her conscience torments her day and night for the rest of her life as she lives off taxpayers' money for something that was an honest mistake. "
TO BCR wrote on Feb 27, 2007 2:55 PM:
" Your comment was just plain wrong. The money will not take away the pain of this family. When cops are judged by their peers then it's NEVER the officers fault. Go ahead and take up for the ASP officer if it makes you feel better. He killed a harmless human being---end of story. When you have that many officers surrounding someone this never should have happened. Officers are also trained to wound someone so why didn't he wound him instead? "
stop blaming the family wrote on Feb 27, 2007 3:25 PM:
" What did the victim or the victim's family do wrong in this instance? Absolutely nothing. Does walking along a road unarmed warrant being shot and killed? Absolutely not. Some of you are obviously not parents so please stop judging Ms. Hamley. A million dollars is chump change for a wrongful death suit. "
EXCOP wrote on Feb 27, 2007 3:30 PM:
" Well all I can say is that until you are put in a situation, where you have to make a life or death decision that none of you know what you would have done. For the law enforcement officers who have to make these decisions, in a split second, I thank that they are doing a wonderfull job. It is not like those of you who just sit on your butts hideing behind a computer all day, have to make these decisions. That is why we leave it up to the pros. Sure it is like everything else, mistakes happen. We are all human, that is one thing that we can not change. And for the family. I am sorry that it happened, but what in the world was he doing all alone if he had mental problems?? From the people who I have talked to and the papers that I have read, I dont know how you can go through live with that COOL MILLION to make things better.. I thank that there is more then one person to blame in all of this. Starting with the family and ending with the trooper. But like I have stated, mistakes happen. I just hope that all of us can learn a little something from this. Until you know what you would have done, or been put in that situation, dont judge people for doing there job. Just remember this everything happens for a reason. "
BCR wrote on Feb 27, 2007 3:33 PM:
" He did kil a harmless human, but at the time, he didn't know that. He was under the impression that this was an armed escaped felon. His special situation was unknown, because the victim refused to say anything. Also, FYI, officers are NOT trained to wound. Ask anyone in law enforcement. When a weapon is drawn, with the intent to shoot, you aim center-body. That is what they're taught. Get cute with wounding, and the perp will turn around, and shoot you back. "
To- To BCR wrote on Feb 27, 2007 3:41 PM:
" How do you know that the comment was wrong. You said that the million wouldnt help take away the pain for this family, then why should they even sue in the first place. Most people in the world today are just looking for that easy dollar. Sure it is said that there son got killed, but what about all of the cops that get killed every year in the line of duty. All they are doing is there job, and the boils down to saving your butt when you need it. And you need to stop watching tv when you say that cops are taught to injure people only. That is not the case, if that was you on the side of that road, and you thuoght that your live or the live of your fellow officers where in danger, you would have probably made the same decision. Until you can put your butt in that situation, do us all a favor and shut your mouth. All Trooper Norman was doing was his job. That is the end of the story. But maybe you thank that if you stick up fot the family, and bad mouth the ASP, maybe they will give you a few of there hard earned dollars... But all of that money well probably be blown on crap that they dont even need. But I guess that is what happens when you put a dollar amount on someones head... "
Bad Cop wrote on Feb 27, 2007 3:48 PM:
" Trooper Norman was NOT doing his job. He disobeyed a direct order from his supervisor to divert traffic. Had he not been derelict in his duties, Hamley would still be alive. The blame for this death rests solely on Norman. "
Rambo wrote on Feb 27, 2007 3:52 PM:
" How in the world with a gun already drawn can you feel your life is in jeopardy enough to already have your weapon aimed at someone laying on the ground and think your life is in immediate danger. There is "rules of engagement " for our soldiers as for our police officers. This officer obvious didnt follow any of them and killed this kid that posed no threat. How big of a little chicken do you have to be to flinch and shoot a kid that simply moves his arms forward. I guess this Trooper thought if he didnt get a round off real quick the kid might fish for a gun , pull the slide back , aim the gun and get off a shot before he with his aimed weapon could get off a shot. To me it just sounds like this Trooper should have never been out there cause he panic'd. Big city officers deal with this situation every day without killing people. Poor training, along with a attitude of being above the law killed this kid. Pay up ! "
WOW wrote on Feb 27, 2007 3:54 PM:
" Some of you are so quick to judge the family. I know them. They are the kindest, most unassuming, honest people that I know. First of all, we don't know how he got to 412 that night. Given his level of ability, he had the appropriate freedom, so don't blame the mother. She had been out searching for him when he didn't come home. We'll probably never know who took him way out there or why. Erin had Cerebral Palsy, he was scared, and he wasn't capable of fully understanding what was going on and physically complying. Face it, if the officer had not disobeyed orders, Erin would still be alive.
Pay attention to the scholarships given out by Springdale High School by the way. The family is working to give a scholarship in Erin's name to a student who would not normally be considered for a scholarship. Yep! That's the kind of people that they are. They want this horrible event to make a difference for others! "
Also an X-LEO wrote on Feb 27, 2007 5:00 PM:
" I won't comment about the shooting because I wasn't there. I will comment that the family may get $600,000 and the attorney $400,000. "
people should be ashamed wrote on Feb 27, 2007 5:01 PM:
" Some of you people should be ashamed of yourselves. the family didn't sue to make the pain go away. the pain will never go away. and i could bet a millon dollars if that was your child you'd sue also. i'm glad to hear they are going to give a scholarship. "
wondering wrote on Feb 27, 2007 5:20 PM:
" What the cop who gave the order that Larry Norman directly disobeyed would have to say???? "
JESSICA wrote on Feb 27, 2007 7:43 PM:
" Sorry Troopers..!! please stay in the highways and do your job, but stay away from Police duties..is not your role.
"
well wrote on Feb 28, 2007 12:05 AM:
" As a former gun holstering, badge honoring law enforcement official, I will add this little tidbit of information. Deadly Force is a last resort...Period. Just because the person moved his arm isn't a reason to shoot. Now it is easy to sit back in the armchair and say he should have done this or he did the right thing...but unless he saw a gun and/or it was beyond a shadow of a doubt that his or others lives were in harms way, he probably should not have shot. I feel extrememly bad for both the officer and the family. These are unfortunate situations that shouldn't happen. Both sides have blame, both sides are going to have emotional pain. The lessons learned hopefully be strong enough to maybe thwart this happening again. Training is so under-appreciated. It is what makes you think long and hard before you pull that trigger. Shooting is a last Resort. "
sick trigger wrote on Feb 28, 2007 2:00 AM:
" Larry Norman how the heck do you live with yourself ,you and your family sould be ashamed .. how does it feel going around killing kids does it make you feel like a bigger man .this guy was on his back coverd with cops and you alone felt scared yeah right.so you pull out your big shotgun and kill him .all for early retirment .maybe you sould donate that money to his mother "
geezzz wrote on Feb 28, 2007 2:05 AM:
" and you sick people think they sould put Joseph Erin Hamley in a cage because he had cerebral palsy.good 1.this isnt his fault his mom didnt know that trigger happy Larry Norman would be on patrol that day.norman pulled the trigger if these cops thoght their lives where in danger why didnt they all shot ??because trigger happy cop "
DOC wrote on Feb 28, 2007 6:53 AM:
" Face it, Larry Norman is guilty. How can the taxpayers let him continue to receive his retirement pay when he killed an unarmed man. It is a felony, pure and simple. With the amount of other officers present, and his disobeying a direct order to stay at the highway and direct traffic he probably wanted to show the others he was a State Trooper and above the County and City officers. Larry Norman is guilty, it's is time we get this trial going and stop the postponements so he can report to the Penitentiary. "
Jeff wrote on Feb 28, 2007 7:17 AM:
" Norman Disobeyed a direct order this is fact AR is a right to work state.99.999% of all employes working wherever doing whatever in this state would be terminated on the spot. When Norman Is convicted we must make sure his medical retirement is terminated while serving his sentence. The Gov is working very hard to take all prisoners of any kind of Gov assistance while serving time and sentences.Funny how every one wants to blame the family this kind of thinking is ignorant.Another alarming fact that we discussed lately(shooting in Morrow)was all this training we that officers went thru dealing with problems associated with mental illness NOW WE ARE TOLD THE TRAING WENT FROM 4 HR TO 8 HR Wow what do you learn in 4 hours Dr's go to school for years learning to deal and treat such illnesses. Shame on you who posted that cops have All this traing Sad day taxpayers are paying again. "
Jeff wrote on Feb 28, 2007 7:38 AM:
" To All who have defended Norman Your defense has caved in You have been saying for days that Norman didnt know that the young man had a sickness.This proves Norman is guilty first Norman Wasnt trained at your own admittance Second He shot before he took the time to analize the innocent man.Norman should be stripped of his medical retirement as his sickness was self inflicted by disobeying a direct order and probably more than one direct orders leading to the killing of an innocent citizen "
Oh Great..... wrote on Feb 28, 2007 7:47 AM:
" The "all-knowing" Jeff is back. Armchair quarterback it all you want, nobody on this forum knows what any person involved in this tragic case went through, or is currently going through. You have to have it happen to you personally before you can understand. It's useless to argue with people that in no way will ever change their minds. God Bless our officers and military. It's because of you that we can argue like 3rd graders on forums like these, and have no backlash for our opinions. "
Saddened wrote on Feb 28, 2007 8:01 AM:
" Two lives were taken that day. Erin's and Larry Normans. This settlement was agreed upon by the family, so they are the ones that decided it was enough. Let them try to rebuild, and find peace. As for Larry, he will live with this the rest of his life, as will his family. None of us know the hardship of that really. Cop-bashing is so easy and judgements by the public are usually based on the anger of a speeding ticket they've received, but there's much more to being a police officer than the average citizen realizes. Had this young man been the escapee (which also had to be shot to be captured by the way), then Larry would have been the hero. It saddens me that this happened, and we can only hope that it doesn't happen again. Blame? I'm sure both sides of this blame themselves to a degree larger than we can imagine. Each officer present must wonder each day "could I have stopped this"? A lot of lives were effected by this and we need as a community of human beings to pray for all involved and begin healing, not judging. "
Concerned Arkansan wrote on Feb 28, 2007 8:13 AM:
" Larry Norman should pay the damages not the state! This gung Ho trooper took a life for no reason. Isn't it odd no one felt threatened enough to shoot except Norman who arrived late on the scene and was the one to kill. If they keep postponing his trial maybe everyone will forget. That is not going to happen! Justice in Arkansas will unfortunately let him off the hook. SAD! I hope Larry Norman sees this boy's face through eternity. "
to norman's defenders wrote on Feb 28, 2007 8:59 AM:
" Those of you who defend individual law enforcement officers simply because they are employed in the field do great disservice to the majority, who are honest, hardworking good guys. Larry Norman may not have been a horrible cop, but it's pretty obvious that he was not a good one. Good ones obey orders and don't act simply on adrenaline. Reality is that law enforcement, just like any other profession, has bad apples. One bad apple should not be allowed to spoil the bunch. Norman's defenders reflect poorly on the lot. "
Jeff wrote on Feb 28, 2007 11:10 AM:
" Why Does pulling the trigger make you a hero is that the mindset of our police officers as the above pro cop poster states this is unreal the hero is the cop who can defuse a situtation without any force. How did why dids cops mindsets get changed 4 hr of education on subject leads one to believe they are very poorly educated in all facets of police work why because the police are suffering sever shortages and serious problems in recruitment of new officers. "
CC wrote on Feb 28, 2007 2:54 PM:
" Listen, we don't pay PO's anything. They are usually not educated(look at Ex cops spelling and grammer), make little money and don't get very much respect. I think if we paid them more, gave them a proper education, maybe this would not happen so often in this area. Normans one of those bad apples, unfortunately for the rest of the good cops in the area. "
a million dollars? wrote on Feb 28, 2007 7:00 PM:
" A MILLION DOLLARS???? Thats a lot of money and no....he SHOULDN'T have to pay for it. Why even gripe about this ACCIDENT when we have illegal immigrants STEALING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR right out from under our noses??? "
CC wrote on Feb 28, 2007 7:19 PM:
" First of all, I give you my "Freedom Finger". Please do not insult law enforcement officials like that again. Most police officers are very intelligent. Unfortunately, many abuse the power that the "Badge of Honor" represents. Like I said earlier...Deadly Force is to be used as a LAST RESORT! What in Hades does illegal immigration have to do with the contraversial killing of a human being by a police officer. Please keep the illegal immigrant discussion to just that...illegal immigration. "
disappointed wrote on Feb 28, 2007 7:33 PM:
" to CC: i think the man is trying to say here we are worried about a simple 1 million dollars and one man killed probably by mistake all the while 12 citizens are killed on average every day in this country at the hands of illegal aliens and that even the so-called good people amongst the illegals cost us millions daily in social services that they do not deserve. i agree that we get what we pay for as to cops or any employee (almost). where i come from when i became a cop i was the least educated cop on the force with my 2 year degree. i finally got my 4 year degree. i do not know that my education made me better at dealing with life and death situations. to me, that issue is dealt with common sense and loads of training, etc. i fault the police in training issues. we tie them up doing very unimportant things (chasing dogs, simple auto accidents, etc) and then wonder why they do not shoot straight when in an entire career the average cop never shoots his/her weapon. i remember years ago i would travel through this area on vacation and sometimes stop and look into law enforcement and pay here. i could not take that big of a hit in pay so i never wore a badge here. money is important. anyway, i say we wait and let the courts deal with this. God bless cops! "
justice wrote on Feb 28, 2007 8:08 PM:
" God bless us all Tiny Tim. Dissapointed is latent closet Homer Simpson in drag. "
Dani~Mari wrote on Feb 28, 2007 8:32 PM:
" i read the court release. the troopers comands were to route the traffic. he didnt hear his command cuz he had his music up so loud. pretty illresponsible if you ask me. why was a shot gun being used. its not like there wasnt already enough guns drawn at the poor boy. "
Dani~Mari wrote on Feb 28, 2007 8:34 PM:
" my point is he shoudnt have been there to be able to shoot him. "
disappointed wrote on Feb 28, 2007 8:39 PM:
" to justice: and what are you, too ignorant to have a spirited debate without resorting to name calling? a good citizen wants cops to be blessed in that they will not have to harm, hurt or take life and are able to go home at the end of their shift. a sorry person wishes them evil. i am simply saying we should not pay out monies out of emotion or judge this cop till he has had his day in court. so what is wrong with that? and for the record, good cops do not want to serve with bad cops and have no issues with helping to get rid of the bad apples. if you disagree with me you should change your moniker for you obviously do not believe in "justice". God less our cops, soldiers, firefighters, emergency medical people and this republic and even "justice". "
sniper wrote on Mar 1, 2007 1:15 AM:
" taking a life is a snap shot in your life. you will always convict yourself for it,if admitted or not. that is where a man is a man and cowards are looking for cover. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 1, 2007 1:16 AM:
" To you pro cops You are getting so unreal your macking a mockery of local law enforcement You keep talking trial
In this case we have the state paying 7 figures and the man is inocent? You need to slow down and read the grand jury report Norman is bad for law enforcement and you all keep backing norman sounds to me like we have numerous roge officers in the local area "
Jeff wrote on Mar 1, 2007 1:27 AM:
" Does anyone of sane mind really believe the state would pay if they even remotely thought Norman would beat the rap and is possible 1 yr in a county jail. Heck No They Now Norman is going down and want to split sheets asap and yet we still have the locals pulling for a dead horse UNREAL what a disgrace to law enforcement Norman will never see the inside of a jail as his life span would be short lived cons do not like living with cops "
Sad times wrote on Mar 1, 2007 2:25 PM:
" I agree that Trooper Norman should forfeit his retirement etc. until the state is paid back for his horrible judgement. We should not have to shoulder this burden with our tax dollars. He should be punished financially as well a criminally. He makes all cops look bad. "
Facts wrote on Mar 1, 2007 6:16 PM:
" Trooper Norman has given many years to his career as an Arkansas State Trooper and he has earned his retirement, unfortunately, he had to take it early due to a family who did not supervise a "so called handicapped" child.
Trooper Norman is NOT a killer, have any of you read the facts, no because the entire facts were not released, and will not be released until a later date.
The other officers that were approaching Mr Hamley, ran back, causing Trooper Norman to shoot, he, Trooper Norman, was covering the officers, so the ASP turned on one of their own, not the first time, very sad, Trooper Norman did not do this alone and he should not shoulder all of the burden.
Tragedy absolutely, fault, not Trooper Norman, fault lies with the guardian
not protecting this young man.
The guardian should not be receiving the million, she placed him in harms way - she might as well have pulled the trigger. It will be interesting to see if that scholarship ever happens
.Why is it ok for a man to shoot his son-in-law, but the officer in the line of duty is guilty. Two faced hypocrits.
"
disappointed wrote on Mar 1, 2007 6:42 PM:
" to Facts: thank you for your comments- well said. to the majority of you, i get so tired of people who would deny a fair trial to a cop and would like nothing more than to string him up right now. so that is the American way now uh? the cop is always wrong to so many. i use to wonder why so many black people always seemed to have a chip on their shoulder? the answer is they know how it feels to be hated or disliked and that due only to the color of their skin. in like manner, because i wore a badge for 15 years many hated me and for no reason (they didnt know me)other than i had a badge on. it just hurts me that some people are so little as to attack the troopers family. it is not their fault in any way. that is a really sad and sick person. the ASP paying out prior to the court's conclusion is dead wrong. i wouldnt wear a badge for those losers. all they are worried about is the bad press and the black eye they think they have suffered. finally, when i say cops are other cop's peers and only cops should sit in judgement of cops one need onlylook at how the military police and judge their own. truth is cops would probably be tougher on themselves than the citizens are in a courtroom. God bless cops! "
I agree wrote on Mar 1, 2007 10:48 PM:
" God bless our cops..I totally agree with you..people have no idea what cops have to deal with on a daily basis. Norman may have messed up really bad that day but people make mistakes. The family is being compensated. I know nothing can take the place of a loved one but come on people, have some compassion. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 1, 2007 11:37 PM:
" I cannot believe the BS your trying to feed us "Norman may have messed up real bad that day"
Id say he did COST A HUMAN LIFE!! W
How would you feel if the victim was a family member of yours Ill bet you would be screaming ahow old was hamily blame evry one but the shooter wow "
to jeff wrote on Mar 2, 2007 4:31 AM:
" get a life and read the facts, the guardian left the "disabled handicapped" child who was unable to communicate, per their own words, the guardian left him alone to walk on hwy 412, that isn't a caring family. By the way this wasn't the first time, he had been in "found" in Rogers numberous times prior to this event. So again this was a tragedy, but the family/guardian was at fault. This was a case of child abuse/child endangerment and I can't understand why this "case" hasn't been addressed.
The guardian is at fault. Read the facts Jeff. The Trooper may bear this cross but is isn't his to bear.
"
wait a minute wrote on Mar 2, 2007 9:05 AM:
" The guardian DID NOT fire the weapon that killed Hamley. Larry Norman did. larry Norman killed Erin Hamley. Whether or not Norman's actions constitute criminal action i.e. homicide, is a decision that will be made through the court system, but FACT: Larry Norman killed Erin Hamley. "
in question form wrote on Mar 2, 2007 9:15 AM:
" How could the guardian be responsible when the trigger that was pulled to fire the weapon that killed Hamley was pulled by someone else? "
to wait aminute wrote on Mar 2, 2007 4:06 PM:
" Use your brain, had Mr Hamley been supervised he would NOT have been walking on the busiest hwy, he would NOT have been in a situation that ended in tragedy, the Trooper did his job, Mr Hamley did NOT obey commands and the other officers retreated, leaving Trooper Norman to do what he was suppose to do, cover his fellow officers from harm, therefore resulting in the shooting. The guardian left Mr Hamley to roam the streets alone, the guardian shrugged their duty to protect Mr Hamely from harm, the guardian, did not do their duty and therefore Mr Hamley paid the price, but the guardian is the one with the million. Child abuse, she neglicted Mr Hamley, she placed him in harms way,
A sad ending that never should have been a situation to begin with, the guardian - that is where fault lies.
"
by that reasoning wrote on Mar 2, 2007 4:59 PM:
" Adam Leadford should be charged with Hamley's death because if there had not been a search for an escaped convict then Hamley could not have been mistaken for Leadford. "
Bud Hamley wrote on Mar 2, 2007 7:00 PM:
" Names bud erin's brother. I just got back from iraq. First and formost. The suit was for one thing and only one thing to force the arkansas state police to change the way they treat the mentally hanidcapped. Part of the agree ment forces them to do that. The money as you all say the million dollars. 1/4th goes to the lawyer and then there are scholarships being set up. I lost my brother on that day and my mother lost her favorite son. Deal with that while you serve your country in a foreign land having night mares all year long and doing a job most americans wont or cant do. THere isnt a day that goes buy that i dont blame my self for not being there to take care of my brother. Deal with that then we will talk. "
Dani~Mari wrote on Mar 2, 2007 7:11 PM:
" i feel for you bud. i drove by the scene. i live in siloam. the cop just acted to fast. if your brother looked anything like i think he did then he looked similer to my cousin w.j he has a slumped back. they should have payed closer attention. god bless you. "
confused wrote on Mar 2, 2007 10:58 PM:
" Maybe this is way too late for discussion, however why would the police/troopers think that a "hardened criminal" would be walking down a U.S. highway in plain sight when the criminal surely knew that the entire law enforcement community in NWA was after him.
Taking a common sense approach, why didn't the police not step back a bit during this spotting of the young man on the highway and ask "what is wrong with this picture"?
If someone could point me to the official trooper report on a webpage, I would really appreciate it and would like to read it in its entirety.
I know anything can happen when trying to chase/capture a hardened criminal, but to possibly think "they had him" walking down a major highway is a very difficult pill for me to swallow. Maybe I am missing something or a lot.
I feel for the family of the young man who was killed.
Thanks "
Jeff wrote on Mar 2, 2007 11:31 PM:
" Erin Was Shot Laying Down. Erin had been walking according to the pro norman crowd what caused erin to Lie down Erin was well subdued on is stomach when shot The Man was not a threat he was never considered a threat in the GJ report Norman Killed Erin In Cold Blood Action then Brain Poor training neglegent lack of Comunication all led to erins death if it was the familys fault would the state be paying? Heck no you backing a dead horse and making law enforcement look real bad with your continued defense of the undefendable "
Denise Allen wrote on Mar 3, 2007 1:17 AM:
" To Bud Hamley: It is good to have you home, brother. I have worried about you being in Iraq. As difficult as it has been to accept Erin's death, it would have been more so if you would have left us also. You are the most kind hearted person I've ever known. Please do not blame yourself regarding Erin. You were about to depart for Iraq. You could not be in two places at the same time. Think of it this way Erin has a purpose in the scholarships. It will be Erin's legacy. "
Jerry Hawkins wrote on Mar 3, 2007 8:04 AM:
" Cops are nothing but heartless drones that do the bidding of corporations and politicans. They use God and honor to mask their true identity and their alliegance to the state. The close association of cops, judges and lawyers let us regular non-hero Joes have no parity with jurisprudence. If a cop is killed the suspect is put away for life. When cop kills, if he does anytime it will be short. Double standards for those we entrust with our safe keeping.
Here's a new one:if the mother had never created the child to be murdered, it would have never happened. Make you pro cops feel better? "
To Jerry Hawkins wrote on Mar 3, 2007 11:13 AM:
" Civilians like you are what make being a cop so difficult. We don't know when a moron will act like a moron, nor do we know when a moron will act not like a moron. We deal with morons everyday with little/no respect from the morons that we interact with. Thank God that the morons are only a small percentage vs. the greater majority of good/honest/intelligent citizens that understand the working relations between themselves, the police, the law, the courts, and the State. Thank God, there are not that many Jerry Hawkins in the communities. "
sad wrote on Mar 3, 2007 11:18 AM:
" that this sad incident will allow vultures like this Hawkins guy to get his "pleasures" by denouncing all law enforcement officials. Yes, there are bad cops. Yes, some cops should not be cops. Yes, some cops disrespect the badge of honor that they wear. But every agency, every business, every walk of life...has it's 10 percent. Let us not loose sight of that and let us not take seriously the hate filled people like Mr. Hawkins. "
SARCASM wrote on Mar 3, 2007 12:44 PM:
" Warning. Sarcasm to follow. I think we should judge everyone and everything based on a short news article or 20 second blur on the nightly tv news. All I need is the springboard, no facts, no context, no further insight needed. Gets in the way of my high horse. "
Jerry Hawkins wrote on Mar 3, 2007 1:27 PM:
" Warning! Those that think no matter what law enforcement does is ok are just like the Germans that allowed Nazi Germany to rise to power. Any critical thinking is immediately squashed by the self rightous league.
Except this guy is not afraid to hide behind nome de plumes. "
Jerry Hawkins wrote on Mar 3, 2007 1:31 PM:
" To;To Jerry Hawkins. Which loser academy did you get learned at? "
To our beloved Jerry wrote on Mar 3, 2007 3:13 PM:
" Uhm...where did any of the above postings by law enforcement officials state that they think that everything they do is perfect. Where did any of the above postings by non-law enforcement officials think that all law-enforcement officials are perfect. You, my sad case of a civilian, are exactly what is wrong with this society. Maybe your the closet Nazi? Is that what your problem is? Or was it that you were not allowed to get into an academy? "
confused wrote on Mar 3, 2007 9:43 PM:
" For: "to confused". I politely asked for the facts (remember)and stated that I could be wrong, however it seems more important to you to demean me just to build your fragile ego. Feel like a "big boy" now?
It sure is a lot easier to hide in a crowded Wal-mart than walking alone down a U.S. Highway.
According to your classy and polite advice...I guess I just "need to get the facts" the same fact I politely/humbly asked for. OK you win...I am stupid and you are very smart...does that make you feel better?...It seems that is very important to you. "
confused wrote on Mar 3, 2007 10:30 PM:
" To: "to confused" again. Since you rudely/boastfully told me I needed to "get the facts", I did and found that Leadford was involved in a two county, high speed chase and bolted on foot into a Wal-Mart in a last-ditch attempt to avoid police.
So,what does shooting a person walking alone on a U.S. Highway (not running from the police in a car over two counties) have to do with a suspect after a long police chase bolting, into Wal-Mart as a desperate effort to hope to get away?... The point I was trying to make had nothing to do with Leadford in Wal-Mart. It was about the several grand jury noted, dismal failures of the police to properly identify a suspect before they pulled the trigger...You stated Hamely was a "moron", so I guess you are stating that it is ok to shoot "morons" if they don't correctly answer the police or follow their instructions. Ever heard of firing a "warning shot" in the air first to get the suspects attention (remember there were several other police that could have shot the suspect as well even though they were retreating back to their cars as they should have done when Hamley began to move).I was not born yesterday...doesn't it not at least sound a bit fishy that a hardened criminal, that knows the whole region is looking for him, to be walking down a 4-lane U.S. Highway in plain "public view"? That was my question you never answered. "
to confused wrote on Mar 4, 2007 8:19 AM:
" i agree with you totally. they had no right to shoot him cuz they never saw a gun. trooper normans commands were to control traffic. the other officers had everything under control. "
This is why an investigation wrote on Mar 4, 2007 2:10 PM:
" should be conducted. We, the people, would like to know if this officer followed proper procedure when firing his weapon or not. Reason being is that if he did follow procedure, then what can the officers do to better their procedures in order to lesson the chances of this happening again. If he didn't follow procedure, then why didn't he and what can the officers do in the future to make sure that this doesn't happen again. Plus, the needed punishments warranted if deemed that he did violate proceedures. So even, if both the dept and the family settled, we the people, need this settled so we can know if the unforunate loss of this young man was legit or not. "
to jeff wrote on Mar 4, 2007 4:09 PM:
" You need to look up the word murderer in the dictionary, you do own a dictionary don't you, or you could use you handy dandy computer, either way, murder was NOT committed by Trooper Norman,
It is very sad that an officer does his job and the job he is trained to do, goes to work everyday to protect these very people who are so quick to judge him, and yet he has already be tried by media and by this web-site.
it couldn't get a fair trial in NWA,
facts are being ignored and emotions are running high, you need step back and realize Trooper Norman did NOT murder Mr Hamley, yes he shot him, but Mr Hamley did not obey and again if he could not communicate then he should never had been left to roam the streets. As far as being a crime to walk the streets of course not, but if you are stopped and ask/given commands by law enforcement, then you do as they ask, no one gets hurt. Mr Hamley isn't to blame and neither is Trooper Norman, the persons responsible would be the guardian. Child neglect/abuse
"
double standard wrote on Mar 4, 2007 8:07 PM:
" Hamley was unable to understand and respond appropriately to the commands of law enforcement because of his medical/physical conditions and abilities. Larry Norman was unable to understand and respond appropriately to law enforcement supervision because the music on his radio was too loud.
Seems to me the weight of the responsibility is with Norman. "
To double Standard wrote on Mar 4, 2007 8:27 PM:
" You state Mr Hamley was unable to understand to commands - thank you, you made my point, he should have been supervised, That is the problem, he wasn't, so the fault is plain and simple, the guardian did not do their job, they allowed Mr Hamley to roam the streets unattended knowing he could not communicate with others, that would be child endangerment, a form of child abuse. This wasn't anyone else resposiblity other than the guardian, lack of supervision.
Don't try to pin this on the Trooper, he was doing his job.
This would never had happened had Hamley been supervised - and now the guardian is looking for a scape coat,
it is time she take responsibilty for her error. "
reality wrote on Mar 4, 2007 9:41 PM:
" Norman was supervised.
Norman had the ability to understand and respond appropriately.
He just did not do so. You can try and blame anyone you want to, including the supervisors who let Adam Leadford escape. Me? I trust the courts to have the final word. Now if the Honorable Tom Keith will proceed with matter in question we'll all get to see what the courts decide. "
Sad times wrote on Mar 5, 2007 6:59 AM:
" Don't try to pin this on the Trooper, he was doing his job----Are you kidding??? Is it his job to disobey direct orders, play music so loud he could not hear the police radio, and second guess the other officers who were already on the scene? We are all better off with this trooper off the streets. He killed an unarmed citizen who was on the ground. He would have a hard time being more negligent. I hope he gets the maximum punishment the law allows. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 5, 2007 7:50 AM:
" There are those within the state who say the state got off cheap if a suit had been filed and a trial held the price to the state would have been way above the million as the state knows there is no defense for Normans actions the only folks still backing a dead horse are a few the local cops and FOF. who are doing more to damage law enforcement with every post To think the law can just stop you and ask who you are is pure BS that in effect is the same as saying we need a permit to walk the streets Norman needs to be housed in the pod at BCJ that houses state inmates I am sure there are a few boys in there who would love to be housed with an ex trooper. How long will he last? "
Jerry Hawkins wrote on Mar 5, 2007 7:58 AM:
" Norman biggest physcological blow was when the state police(the one agency that never finds fault,ever, with what police do),was offering him up as a sacrafical lamb to the public. I guess the state did not even want to stick their necks out for him.
But he should not be recieving retirement since he clearly was derelict in duty and should have been punished by his commander. "
Jerry Hawkins wrote on Mar 5, 2007 9:00 AM:
" And one more thang. We the people would not be so "down" on the cops if they would understand this; We know all cops are not perfect, have bad apples etc, if the cops would realize that everyone in this world is in the same boat, but for some reason some of us recieve the wrong attention from cops and are scarred and know we can no longer find refuge in your care. End the war in America. "
To Jeff wrote on Mar 5, 2007 11:53 AM:
" Then what would you suggest any societarial security component do when a potential criminal is walking the streets? How would you confirm his identity without stopping you and asking for your identification? "
To Jerry Hawkins wrote on Mar 5, 2007 11:58 AM:
" Now those two latest posts of yours was much better. Your tone didn't disrespect those that try to bring honor to the badge and to those that try to keep our societies safe and secure. Yes, Norman deserves to be persecuted by not only the full extent of the law but by his peers also. A trial might be in the best interest of all. There is not much defending of a cop that shoots an unarmed man unless the officer felt that either his or others lives were in eminant danger. Deadly Force should be used as a last resort and their is a ladder of force that all cops must follow otherwise unfortunate incidents like this will happen and no one wins. "
Sad times wrote on Mar 5, 2007 1:47 PM:
" Bud, I don't think anyone in their right mind is blaming your brother or mother. This was a horrible tragedy that most certainly could have been averted. The blame rests squarely on Trooper Norman. I feel confident a jury will see that too.
Those who blame your brother, mother etc. will try to blame anyone except the officer involved. In their minds a cop can do no wrong. Don't let them get to you. Thank you for your service in the military. I'm glad you made it back. "
Lets blame wrote on Mar 5, 2007 2:09 PM:
" Canada!!! or WalMart!!! Caring for mentally handicapped humans is a very difficult challenge. I wish the family well and hope that they can recover from this tragedy. Don't let those that are quick to judge (on either side of this issue) get you down. "
To Sad Times & Jeff wrote on Mar 5, 2007 4:53 PM:
" You both are so out of line and so far from the facts. Yes the family needs to take responsibility for allowing Mr Hamley to walk alone on the busy hwy, he is said to not be able to communicate, so why on earth would you allow a "handicapped person not able to communicate with others " to be alone, let alone on hwy 412. Oh and this isn't the first time, he had been found in Rogers numberous times.
SO how could a responsible guardian let this "handicapped" young adult who could not communicate with others be unsupervised? I do understand the burden of raising a handicapped child,
and I understand the loss, but even so they shouldn't blame their error on Trooper Norman and ruin his life because they failed Mr Hamley,
and they failed to protect him.
"
failure wrote on Mar 5, 2007 5:44 PM:
" Larry Norman failed his supervisor. Larry Norman failed the state. Larry Norman failed the public, and most of all Larry Norman failed Erin Hamley. If you repeat it to yourself enough you -as is obvious - will actually believe that Larry Norman was only doing his duty, but again, let's see what the courts say. Are there any other charges from the incident, charges perhaps for child abuse? No? There aren't? Ya think that's maybe a clue? "
to failure wrote on Mar 5, 2007 6:01 PM:
" Don't count out the other lawsuits that will be filed on behalf of Mr Hamley, neglect by the guardian, oh yeah.
It will happen. "
charges wrote on Mar 5, 2007 7:35 PM:
" Neglect is a criminal charge. Have there been any criminal charges other than misdemeanor negligent homicide? Wrongful death would be a civil charge. The family already agreed not to sue. Might you have an idea who would be filing any civil charges? And how might they have standing with the court???? "
disgusted wrote on Mar 5, 2007 9:11 PM:
" I am sick of people judging that cop. That entire incident is hard for both the cop and the family of that poor boy. But until you have walked in a mile in cops shoes or been a parent of a disabled young adult you should stop passing judgement. This whole thing is a tragedy and if you eant to point the finger of blame, try pointing at the criminal that boy was mistaken for. Yes the cop made a mistake an honest one. Maybe the mother could have done something different . who knows, but an escaped criminal was started this chain of events. Right wrong whatever you people should stop making yourselves feel better by passing judgement based on media fed information. Show a little compassion. The state probably settled for the million to allow everyone to move on. I pray none of you have to encounter this kind of horrific tragedy and feel the sting of public ridicule.I am so sorry for that cop and that boys family. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 6, 2007 9:21 AM:
" To Disgusted your statement"The state probably settled for the million to allow everyone to move on." Do you really believe that? The state payed a million which is enough money the legislature has to vote on paying the award . The state settled because they know as we do that Norman is a sunk duck as the above poster rightly said Norman was a failure in all aspects even to his family a little better judgement and they wouldnt be going thru all the suffering Norman suffering the young man is dead and Norman is still bleeding the taxpayers for medical retirement benifits. Something is real wrong with this. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 6, 2007 9:26 AM:
" To Disgusted you talk about all the media attention. you seem to think the media sacrificed Norman I suggest you read the grand jury report and you wont type such ignorance. one can only assume the grand jury is to blame for Normans Problems, and not the Shooter We are not as dumb as your spin "
disgusted wrote on Mar 6, 2007 2:18 PM:
" I can't beleive how some people are still so wrapped up in the money. Several lives have been damaged by this. Cops are way under paid to put their lives on the line to protect people who judge the entire profession based on a few speeding tickets. Cops like every profession have a few jerks but that doesn't make them all bad. I wonder how many lives this cop has saved during his career. if he saved just one he is worth the million dollars. It frustates me that people call him trigger happy. no cop who passes a psych profile is ever happy to pull the trigger to take a human life. He made a mistake and he will pay for that the rest of his life. Obviously some people just missed the overall point in my post. It is a sad day when people can't put themselves in someone else's shoes for just a minute and show some compassion. "
jeff wrote on Mar 6, 2007 9:40 PM:
" To disgusted It is about the money that is some of my hard earned money paying the award get real who pays the cops salary? last time i cked we the taxpayers foot the bill you can type and spell but you are as du..as a box of rocks "
to jeff wrote on Mar 7, 2007 6:14 AM:
" You still are posting your thoughts trying to get anyone to agree with you and yet, you still do not have a following, you have gone from one web site to the next, and every one you write about Trooper Norman, you really have a problem. You post are NOT factual you constantly have slandered people and yet you are still here, You must have a long record, and are extremely afraid of any Police Officer, and obviously have a problem with authority figures in general.
SO Jeff if you are so bitter and filled with hate, get help, and stop the madness and fullishness of your post. If you somehow convence just one person you have placed many officers in danger,
In closing Trooper Norman, is NOT guilty, he did is job, he covered the other officers, and when they retreated because they thought a gun was being drawn, he shot, end of story.
Sad yes, very sad, guilty no not even close. Fault lies with the guardian.
Get the facts for once.
"
to Jeff wrote on Mar 7, 2007 6:45 AM:
" Could you prove one statement you have written with facts? You say read the report, talk about undertrained and untrained, put your money where your mouth is. Post one fact not just empty rhetoric. All you have said is opinion, no fact. Norman did shoot Hamley, no question about that. Unfortunate yes, but Jeff this is a fact. Nothing else you have said is fact only hot air. It sounds as if you have an axe to grind and it would be reasonable if you had some substance to back all your ramblings. Show us the facts Jeff. Show everyone Norman's training record, show hsi employment record, show his disciplinary record. Until you can show and prove these things you don't have a clue about what you are talking about. Tell me where can I get a cpy of the Grand Jury's report, I would like to read it as I am sure several others would also. The facts you are stating is third party hearsay, not always the truth. What happened to you in hte past that makes you so bitter? "
a thought wrote on Mar 7, 2007 10:09 AM:
" Something is unsaid by Norman's defenders, though apparently felt by those who want to blame the guardian.
It's not fair, somebody let Erin Hamley go for a walk on a public highway and if they would have just kept him supervised he never would have been killed. It's just not fair.
Okay. It's not fair. If anyone ever told you life is fair, they lied. The fair is in Little Rock in October. Truth be known, justice is not always fair. It's just the way it is. And that means the courts will decide if Norman is criminally guilty.
"
marty wrote on Mar 7, 2007 11:23 AM:
" I drove by the scene where the shooting took place right before Erin was shot. There was one officer at the scene at that time. He had his gun drawn and was crouching behind the open driver's door. I remember quite clearly the night before hearing the report about Adam Ledford. They described him as 5'9". The person I saw was NOT 5'9". He was much taller than that. I was driving by at 60 mph or faster and noticed that. Trooper Norman was scared and that's why he shot. "
why wasn't he searched and cuffed? wrote on Mar 7, 2007 11:42 AM:
" I read that there were a few officers on site. I read that he fit the description. I don't remember reading anything about the kid not having his identification on him? Was this kid shot soon after the officers had him under detainment or was some time passed? Did he even have any identification issued to him or did he not carry it that evening? Was his fatal move a quick move or a gradual move? There are a lot of questions out there, I hope the trial does this situaltion justice. For both sides, I pray it does. There is a lot to learn from this. "
agrees with to jeff wrote on Mar 7, 2007 2:21 PM:
" I think jeff needs to go through the police academy. He obviously thinks he can do the job better. "
Denise Allen wrote on Mar 7, 2007 2:47 PM:
" Here is an article from one of your Arkansas newspapers. It is the findings of the GRAND JURY that everyone wants to read so badly. http://www.nwaonline.net/pages/grand_jury/gjreport.txt
ENJOY!! I took the black ribbon that was on my tree off at the exact moment Erin passed away one year ago today. I'm going back to crying the rest of the day away. "
Thank you Denise wrote on Mar 7, 2007 8:00 PM:
" That is what some of us needed. As a former law enforcement official, I would like to hear the excuses given for this. I can put myself in the officers shoes but my training tells me that I probably would have been doing what the Trooper ordered me to do, or if anything, I would have secured a safe position and let the officer in charge of the situation dictate what to do. Only if I saw a gun being pulled out would I have shot. If the lighting would have been poor, I would have stayed in my protective stance and waited for a better visual or something to justify firing a deadly weapon. My badge does not give me the right to be on scene for less than a minute and fire the first and only shots without having NO doubt as to what I was doing. But that is just me, unfortunatly for both sides on this, the officer shot and worried about the questions later. Now law enforcement agencies again have a black eye. One can justify this shooting but we would have to know more facts from his end before we honestly can. Tombstone Courage gets either the officer or the suspect each time. Hence why this trial would be so important. "
be patient wrote on Mar 8, 2007 3:37 AM:
" everyone be patient, the entire event was recorded on dash mounted camera's of police cruisers there. 6 other police officer's there. None of them felt a threat to shoot this kid LYING ON HIS BACK!!!!!! Even if this was the escaped convict it still would have been a bad shoot. Trust me, when the case is over and the tape is released, EVERYONE will quit blaming anyone except Norman. he is going through hell? Who cares!!!!! He is still breathing.........1 million???? is that all????? ASP is lucky this is a poor family to begin with. A jury would have paid twenty times that after seeing the tape.
Lethal force is authorized when an officer feels that without immediate use of lethal methods the subject in question WILL cause the death or serious physical injury of another. This kid was on his back, he was contained. He had at least 6 guns on him. He is under no cover or concealment. Where is the threat? Who is in immediate danger? Oh yeah, Norman....who put himself in that position. Read the affadavits people!!! This will no doubt be in the national media within days of the tape being released.
"
or you will be shot wrote on Mar 9, 2007 1:57 AM:
" Nice. So if you go to wipe a runny nose...shot. When you swat a bee from your face...shot...when you cover your mouth when you sneeze...shot. If you do not obey the field sobriety test...shot. If you don't hear the officer's command?....shot. If you move your arm in a non-agressive manner...shot. When you speak when you are told not to...shot. "
that is good advice wrote on Mar 9, 2007 9:45 AM:
" I hope Del understands that intelligent message. Because this subject is about the killing of a human who moved his arm while on his back. Killed by a police officer that was on scene for less than a minute and was not supposed to be there in the first place. "
rita wrote on Mar 9, 2007 7:23 PM:
" I was there when that took place I was right across the street. And let me tell ya that officer could have talk to him or even try to go up to him and talk to him then. On 412 it was jammed packed you couldn't go either north or south on that rd. And for the state police to pay 1 million dollars for that incindent. That is not enough to have someone shoot somebody and then later to find out that it was the person. Here is what I don't understand is that when someone shoots a police officer it's a felony but, when an officer shoots a citizen it's a misdemeanor. Go figure!!!! I don't think that Norman should have any rights what so ever after killing that boy. "
to reta wrote on Mar 9, 2007 9:20 PM:
" You were across the street and the 4 deputies who approached him, were obviously much closer and when they ordered Mr Hamley to remove his hands and he did not he kept reaching into his pockets, I suppose you saw that from across the street, and you saw the officers retreat, and when the officers retreated because they thought a gun was being pulled, you saw that as well, you have excellent eye sight, too bad you don't have the facts,
Trooper Norman has rights, he is a citizen of the US, like it or not, just because he did his job, you all have decided to hate him, he is evil,
well that is isn't true, His job was to cover the other officers, and he did just that, they retreated he fired to protect them.
Way is it Reta you were never interviewed,?
If you want to take rights away, try the guardian who abused this young man by neglect and letting him wonder the streets alone, child endangerment, that is the crime that was commented
and the fault lies with the guardian, and yes that million should NEVER have been paid.
"
Dani~Mari wrote on Mar 9, 2007 9:29 PM:
" Trooper Larry Norman, who had begun driving towards their location, was instructed by the primary responding officer, Trooper Wilson Short, to block west-bound traffic, on U.S. 412. After driving over 100 miles per hour with his AM/FM radio turned up to the degree that it could hinder his ability to hear dispatch communications, Trooper Norman disregarded the instruction Trooper Short and did not block off west bound traffic as requested. Instead, Trooper Norman took a position approximately 30 yards away in a location which was northwest of Erin Hamley. After exiting his patrol car with his shotgun, he moved to the rear of his patrol car. While orders were being directed to Hamley by Norman and the other officers, Norman observed Hamley raise and lower both arms three times. Hamley then sat down and laid on his back. Trooper Norman left his position of cover near his patrol car, which caused Trooper Short and the Washington County sheriff's deputies to leave their positions of cover as well. As Hamley began moving his right arm towards the left side of his body, possibly in an effort to roll onto his stomach as ordered by Trooper Larry Norman, the Washington County deputies began retreating to a safe position of cover. As they were retreating, Trooper Norman shot Erin Hamley in the right side of his body, with the slug hitting the pavement first, then grazing his arm and continuing into Hamley's body.
"
His job wasn't to cover wrote on Mar 9, 2007 9:31 PM:
" His job was to tend to the traffic. 4 Deputies should have been enough to keep an individual detained. Unless there was a legit reason to be called over, and there seems to be no evidence stating that he was called over to provide cover for the 4 deputies could "retreat". Did any of them attempt to search him or get identification from him? "
Dani~Mari wrote on Mar 9, 2007 9:31 PM:
" Immediately after the shot was fired, Washington County deputies requested an ambulance. As the officers approached Erin Hamley, Hamley is heard to moan and say, "I'm sorry" and later, "Why did you shoot me?"
now tell me this was not preventable!!!
"
Dani~Mari wrote on Mar 9, 2007 9:40 PM:
" first of all if this happened to anyone in your family you would do the same thing. contact a lawyer. its your right. thats what their there to do.leave the family alone!! you cant lock a diabled person up like their in jail!! this boy lived near the park.. he was always there.. he accidentlly walked in the wrong direction and lost his way. blame springdale police he walked all of 412 and were notified of the problem. why didnt they see him. do not blame the family!! disabled people are not animals you cant tie them up. all you can do is make their life as normal as possible and this does not mean locking them up. "
to dani mari wrote on Mar 10, 2007 7:30 AM:
" First of all, this would NOT happen to anyone in my family, because, supervision would have been place,
had it been someone with the need to be supervised, they would have been taught to respect all law-enforcement, do what they ask and you will be ok,
if you break the law, we deal with that after you get home as well.
This was not the Troopers fault, he did
his job, he covered the other officers,
neglect on the part of the family is the crime committed.
I never have said lock-them up, I said SUPERVISE - big difference, they can live a normal life, they are special needs people that require special attention on the part of the guardian, easy of course not, but that is their responsibility to care for and protect that child., they failed. So take the responsibility now and quit blaming others, they were paid 1million for neglecting their responsibilities,
justice??? hardly. "
to moron above wrote on Mar 10, 2007 8:21 AM:
" his commands from his boss were not to cover the other cops. his were to block off traffic. read what i wrote. it was cut and pasted from court records. the other cops were gonna taser hamley not shot him. and also hamley was obeying what he was told. norman told him to turn over. when he turned over thats when norman shot him. if the what the cop did was a accident? then why did he get in trouble? thats very very easy to awnser. it was avoidable if he would have been listening to his commands and guarded the traffic. but no he ran in and pulled a barney fife. hamley would be alive. the commanding cop would have tasered hamley, cuffed him, and all of this disrespect would not be happening. "
to moron above did you wrote on Mar 10, 2007 8:44 AM:
" know there was not going to be a Taser used. And as far as disobeying his boss, Trooper Short was not Norman's supervisor, check the rank of each. Hamley did not turn over as you claim, he reached across his body as though reaching for a weapon. Hamley was not obeying the commands which were given to him. Do you honestly think any officer wants to shoot an innocent person? A tragedy yes, a crime no. If only someone had reported Hamley missing and given his description this might not have happened, but Hamley's mother did not report him missing until well after the shooting. Why did she wait approximately 18 hours to report him missing? Doesn't seem she was to worried about him. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 10, 2007 9:29 AM:
" Read the grand jury report in Full not just the little tidbit oin the paperTrooper short was in charge it has long been established that the first on scene takes command this order was given for norman to control traffic he disregarded a direct order the grand jury says this over and over Norman disobeyed a direct order Funny how you folks keep trying to blame everyone but the shooter the shooter is in bad shape because he should not have been where he was at also norman must have his medical retirement pulled when convicted this will happen and all the pro normans will be eating crow it has been funny listening to them on this thread and not one of them has ever bothered to read the grand jury report much less a complete copy of the report the report Dams Norman from fronyt to back it never once mentions the fact that the family was responsible why because the constitutation lets us walk freely down the road the grand jury founf the shooting 100% Norman at fault "
to Jeff wrote on Mar 10, 2007 9:46 AM:
" Norman will not loose his retirement. The court can't take that away from him, only the ASP can. ASP has already granted his retirement so there is nothing you can do about that. Let's wait for the outcome. If he is found guilty or not guilty it will be over. Either way I will continue to support Larry Norman because I know what kind of person he is. For those of you who don't know him and don't support him, doesn't matter. I will admit there were mistakes made, but they were made from several different people, not just one. It is truly a tragedy, a young man lost his life. This could have been avoided if: Law Enforcement was not on scene; Hamley was not walking on 412; if the citizen hadn't call in the report; if one of you who know everything had been there. Give all Law Enforcement agencies in the area your number and they can call you to handle the situation. Does anyone know how Norman feels about what happened? He will live with this every waking hour for the rest of his life. It doesn't matter what the court decides, he will punish himself everyday. Do you think Hamley's mother balmes herself for not keeping Erin safe? Probably not she has a million dollars to spend. "
to Norman's defender wrote on Mar 10, 2007 10:11 AM:
" Scream "NO FAIR" all you want. Reality: Norman may well have an otherwise unblemished record as an Arkansas State Trooper but is charged with misdemeanor negligent homicide, a criminal act. No one else has been charged. If found guilty he will be a criminal. You can't change that, and nothing can change your mind. Norman is undoubtedly aware of your support, possibly to the point of embarassment. Your continued defense of his actions is obviously well intended if misguided. Your argument is that Hamley's family is guilty because they didn't protect him from Norman. They should not have to. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 10, 2007 10:16 AM:
" To The Norman Supporters, I am suprised your not screaming discrimination State pays 1 mill to family. Last time I checked AR does not have a lottery, I suggest you call your congressman and ask them to vote no to paying the award I can tell you this each and every congressman has a complete copy of the GJ report along with a document from the state AG explaining how much this screw up could cost the state if they do not agree to the plaintiffs deal. every congressman will vote yes to payment Since your being discriminated because you did not get a mil from the state as a gift I suggest you hurry up to LR and lobby non payment You are defending a dead horse as for the med retirement it can be stripped just as stste and federal benifits are stripped from incarcerated people all the time.pus a button here and there and watch it disappear. You pro folks need to slow down and see your doing more damage than good I am still surprised your not backing the gentry cop who had sex with little girls and was recently convicted at least he didnt kill "
ToJeff wrote on Mar 10, 2007 10:26 AM:
" Who is in charge of the State Police? You can not make an intelligent statement. Where did discrimination come into the picture? Now you are talking about a Gentry Officer. What does this have to do with anything on this subject? How about the deputies you talked so bad about? They were cleared, burns you up doesn't it. The fact is you have no say in whatever happens and you can't deal with that. Where can a complete copy of the grand jury report be found? It must be on public record somewhere, not on a website. If it is on a website there is no way of making sure it is complete, needs to be a written copy. As far as his retirement, again you have no control over it, and it will not be taken away. I have never said Norman did not have fault in this. I said several people have fault and that I will support him. I didn't say he was right, only it is not my job to judge. If he is guilty it doesn't mean I will turn my back on him. It only means that I don't have to agree with him to support him. The fact is a young man is dead due to several different actions. We can't change any of them. "
Support him all you want wrote on Mar 10, 2007 10:40 AM:
" that is a noble jesture, but don't mix emotions into logic. That is a dangerous mix when trying to be fair and just. I cherished my days wearing that badge, and initially it is normal to want to jump to the officers defence, but when the facts start coming in, I had to detach my personal feelings and attach common logical sense. Reading most of what the grand jury said...this officer seems incorrect in his firing of his deadly weapon. We can make excuses all we want but none of them seem to be a viable reason to fire that deadly weapon which did kill an innocent man. If this young man would have been the actual felon...this discussion should still be made, but it probably wouldn't have been made with as much passion. "
To Jeff wrote on Mar 10, 2007 10:44 AM:
" Could you please enlighten us the SOP's of the PD's. If you have any knowledge of what they might be. I don't understand why you change the subject everytime you can't come up with an intelligent response. Shows your ignorance. Are you saying that anyone who supports Norman is the same as someone who supported a person who killed for fun? That is irrational. I don't see what Charles Manson has to do with this. Jeff keep posting and show everyone how litle you know. You are truly amazing. If you know the SOP's please post them to enlighten all of us uninformed people. If you can't, it just shows more of your empty unimportant ramblings. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 10, 2007 11:00 AM:
" I know one sop that really stands out. You must follow orders. if this is not the case there is no need for chain of command all we need are beat cops who answer to only themselves please get real. The man disobeyed a direct order this is a very serious violation of AR state police SOP in fact so serious it cost a man his life and the taxpayers at least a mil not counting the time gov employees have been on the case Norman cost us very dearly and now it is time for him to pay I hope and pray that financial restitution for the complete case be tacked on to his sentance as he owes the taxpayers lots of cash I am going to ck on a class action suit against norman personally by the taxpayers that med retirement needs to be spent paying us back for his ignorance. "
Just a thought wrote on Mar 10, 2007 12:43 PM:
" Jeff the SOP's says the first officer on scene is in command until a higher ranking officer arrives. Norman outranks Short. As for the class action suit: You will need to sue the Arkansas State Police. They made the payment for their benefit, not Norman's. If you win ASP will make the payment, costing taxpayers (you) more money. Then if there is a need the ASP would have to sue Norman for damages caused by the suit. Check your facts. Jeff you might want to consider your comments before responding. You are looking more and more foolish everytime you make a comment. Have a nice day. "
When the dispatcher tell you wrote on Mar 10, 2007 2:11 PM:
" to do something...you do it. Normally the dispatcher is taking direct orders from someone who usually outranks most everyone on the road. Just because Norman was of higher rank does not mean that he was in charge of the situation after being on scene for less than one minute and ESPECIALLY after he was on scene to tend to traffic. Nice attempt at spin, but not nice enough! "
Of course wrote on Mar 10, 2007 2:23 PM:
" you would have to keep your AM/FM radio low enough to hear dispatches. I wonder what song he heard that got him so keyed up..?? "
Dispatch is wrote on Mar 10, 2007 2:23 PM:
" never in charge of road officers. Nice try. Next time get your facts straight before speaking. Road Officers do not answer to dispatch and ranking officers are not in the dispatch center. Try again. "
omg your telling me wrote on Mar 10, 2007 2:41 PM:
" That when a dispatcher tells an officer to go to a call, he/she can say NO? Are you telling me that when the Commander in charge of the shift tells the dispatcher, hey send person A over to this area to do this...that the patrolling officer gets to say ...NO, I'll do what I want? So what you seem to be implying is that today's law enforcement is a bunch of egotistocal rebels that have no form of structure and no form of accountability? I doubt that to be the truth, but if you insist on painting that picture, then you must be correct. So if an accident happened on the road that this officer was supposed to be tending to, and if the accident could have been prevented by the officer tending to traffic, that there would be no accoutability cause the officer can disregard orders dispatched to him? Interesting! "
The subject hasn't changed wrote on Mar 10, 2007 2:49 PM:
" The subject is still about a cop that may have killed an innocent man? The subject is about the concept of what was the proper response to that certain scenario. The subject is about a cop that was given orders to tend to traffic, but disregarded those orders, went to the scene of possible felon detainment, and within 1 minute of being on site, pulled the trigger of his deadly weapon cause he saw the detained suspect move his arm towards his body. Talking about the variables within the scenario is not going off topic. "
technically wrote on Mar 10, 2007 2:50 PM:
" He did kill an innocent man, the subject is about the cop that may have been negligent in his use of his deadly weapon which killed an innocent man that was potentially an escaped felon. "
What I am telling you is wrote on Mar 10, 2007 3:12 PM:
" dispatch takes the call and passes it on to the zone officer. Dispatch can not tell the officer how to handle the call or what to do with the call. Dispatch is not in charge of the officer per se. Quit trying to turn this around. Dispatch cannot tell the officer what to do. They pass on the information and the officer handles the call. Dispatches duty is only to inform the officer of what type of call it is, not how to handle it. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding. I was just trying to explain that dispatch is not in charge of the officer. If an officer refused to go to a call, then that would be dealt with by their supervisor, not dispatch. Dispatchers at most departments are civilivan personnel and have no supervisory duties. At least not over the officers. Dispatch has no idea what is actually happening on a call is why the can not tell the officer how to handle the call. "
that is much better wrote on Mar 10, 2007 3:21 PM:
" and for most purposes, you are correct. But the dispatcher and/or supervisor needs to know if the person sent to tend traffic is doing that particular assignment. For if it is not then someone else needs to be assigned to that task. Yes, today's dispatchers are civilian mostly and with that comes the problem of truely being able to see the field of action. I wish the dispacthers were patrol officers that know what to do in order to give the best guidance and understanding to any issue. But now I am getting off the subject. Thank you for clarifying your position. "
To Ms Allen wrote on Mar 10, 2007 6:59 PM:
" This report is not complete, and the point is as tradgic as this was, and I am sorry for your loss,
Please remember that your family isn't the only one hurting. The choice that Mr Hamley made and not being able to comprehend was not his fault, it wasn't the Trooper Normans fault either.
Should Mr Hamley been locked up of course not, he was a person with special needs, unfortunately those needs weren't meet that day, and resulted in his death.
All I ask is that the family realize this for what is was an unfortunate tragic incident, that was not intentional and was NOT murder,
The report you keep referring to, doesn't have all the deputies or Troopers who were there, not everyone was interviewed by the Grand Jury, complete, hardly.
So I understand you are hurting, but you are lashing out at an innocent man.
Accusations and lashing out at someone to blame will not make the hurt go away.
Especially when the person you are lashing out to is innocent.
Mr Hamely should have been supervised
he should have been with a person to help him communicate with others, that is the problem, he wasn't. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 10, 2007 7:24 PM:
" The above poster said what we have been saying for days"Dispatchers at most departments are civilivan personnel and have no supervisory duties."
What am I missing? Here we have LE describing civilian personal as being different than Beat Cops and Supervisory cops
Are you implying that you really think you are a member of a para military force?
I thought all police officers were civilians
Please enlighten us as to your frame of mind You really do think your military and the street is the enemy and any and all citizens are also considered the enemy WOW "
Jeff wrote on Mar 10, 2007 7:37 PM:
" TO Ms Allen Can you explain why the grand jury only recomended charges be filed against Norman I have read the complete report and nowwhere is blame placed anywhere other than Norman. Norman and Norman only we have a right to walk along the highway in peace the description of the felon Norman wanted to shoot and hamley was like comparing apples to oranges oh by the way he is flying to a possible confrontation with a known felon and he is playing his RADIO SO LOUD THE POLICE RADIO WAS NON EXISTANT Shouldnt he have wanted to be updated with the events transpiring ahead of him as often as possible
Sorry sounds like a pretty cheesy ex cop with no respect for anyone including his family who is suffering because of his neglegence "
To jeff, wrote on Mar 10, 2007 7:40 PM:
" Hey bud, back the hades down. He was saying that in today's police force, the dispatchers are not law enforcement academy trained. The reference to Civilian is probably a term that is most commonly used in the military, so if you are not or have never been in the military, you probably would not understand the terminology. So please, with all due respect back down from that, the intent was to show that the dispatchers are not trained like their law enforcement patrol officers. Much the same as would be hiring someone "off the streets" and bringing them into the Medical field to conduct medical business with other professionals in the medical field that have years of extensive training. The term "off the streets" is not meant to say a bum living in a cardboard box with his bottle of burbon, it is a term used to differenciate the different aspects of professional life. "
to jeff part II wrote on Mar 10, 2007 7:44 PM:
" yes, you are correct. The attempt to blame the incident on the dead person's family is a twist on the entire sad case. Yes he should have been watched better, but unfortunately for everyone involved, the officer should have "watched" better also. The officer didn't and thus we now need a court to tell us if the actions of the cop were well within his training and within the laws that regulate the badge on his chest. "
Jeff cannot make wrote on Mar 10, 2007 8:42 PM:
" an intelligent argument. All he wants to do is argue. I for one and tired of hearing his holier than thou attitude. Jeff get a grip on reality and you might be taken seriously. Do you know the difference between civilain and sworn personnel. Of course not, you don't even know what the SOP's of the differnet departments are. You were asked about the SOP's earlier and have refused to answer. Why? Because you have no idea. Keep spreading your hate and contempt for law enforcement and you will find everyone will see you lack of knowledge. Why not answer the questions that have been asked of you. Because you can't. "
To Jeff wrote on Mar 10, 2007 9:06 PM:
" The courts will decide if Trooper Norman made an error in judgement, IF he did he will be punished, however IF he NOT, he will suffer for the rest of his life. So either way he looses.
So Jeff try to understand this,
the Grand Jury, appointed by Robin Greene, controlled with her questions and the persons interviewed were controlled by her, however once the court has convened all information will be given and the facts will be told, until then no one knows but the officers at the scene at that very moment. The radio seeming to be loud will be explained in detail at that time as well. You weren't there and never will walk in a Troopers shoes, so stop being so quick to judge, they serve and protect the residents of our County as do the Deputies of WCSO, thank you for all you do and know that most of us are very appreciative for what you do for us,
I support Trooper Norman, he is a good man a great father, an Excellent Trooper, this will be proven he did his job and acted accordingly.
"
that was very nicely said wrote on Mar 10, 2007 10:08 PM:
" Let us all chill until the results of the investigation is complete. This is a lose/lose for the Trooper and lose/lose for the family. The only lose/win would be for the incident to be a lessons learned for law enforcement agencies and for the citizens. If you are the guardian of a person with mental disabilities it is essential that their whereabouts are monitored at all times ( that may be hard but not without merit) and law enforcement officials need to be more diligent in their firing of that deadly weapon. Mistakes with a deadly weapon have grave consequences. "
To Bud Hamely wrote on Mar 11, 2007 9:35 AM:
" Mr Hamley I appreciate that you went to war I am very sorry for your loss.
However you stated that your brother, Erin, needed supervision, you were the one responsible for him, and yet while you were gone, your family, your mother did NOT step up and take on this role of guardian, how sad, Now your brother is gone, and it is NOT the Troopers faults. You were not here. therefore the fault lies with your mother, no one else. Stop blaming yourself for something you could not prevent, you were not here. and once you stop blaming yourself you will be able to stop blaming the an innocent man, Trooper Norman. Trooper Norman DID NOT kill Erin in Cold Blood as you suggest.!!! Erin could not communicate with the officers, Erin was alone unsupervised and not able to do as the officers commanded, unsuperivised.
You need to understand these officers deal with harden criminals daily, the drug addicts, the murderers, the rapist,those who will not go back to jail. So when someone whom the officers are trying to communicate with squirms and keeps reaching into his pockets, they had no other choice.
Erin gave them no choice.
Mr Hamley, I know you are hurting, you are comsumed with guilt, but this is not your burden to carry, nor is it Trooper Normans.
Please stop placing blame on an innocent man, you have lost a brother and you will never be the same,and neither will Trooper Norman. "
To Bud Hamely wrote on Mar 11, 2007 9:36 AM:
" Mr Hamley I appreciate that you went to war I am very sorry for your loss.
However you stated that your brother, Erin, needed supervision, you were the one responsible for him, and yet while you were gone, your family, your mother did NOT step up and take on this role of guardian, how sad, Now your brother is gone, and it is NOT the Troopers faults. You need to let go of the guilt, you were not here, therefore the fault lies with your mother, no one else. Stop blaming yourself for something you could not prevent, you were not here. and once you stop blaming yourself you will stop blaming the an innocent man, Trooper Norman. Trooper Norman DID NOT kill Erin in Cold Blood as you suggest.!!! Erin could not communicate with the officers, Erin was alone unsupervised and not able to do as the officers commanded, unsuperivised.
You need to understand these officers deal with harden criminals daily, the drug addicts, the murderers, the rapist,those who will not go back to jail. So when someone whom the officers are trying to communicate with squirms and keeps reaching into his pockets, they had no other choice.
Erin gave them no choice.
Mr Hamley, I know you are hurting, you are comsumed with guilt, but this is not your burden to carry, nor is it Trooper Normans.
Please stop placing blame on an innocent man, Trooper Norman. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 11, 2007 9:50 AM:
" I am sorry but even though the officers take an oath they are still civilians as for training many cops with badges are just off the streets without any training
Why did the state pay before Normans court date? "
To Jeff wrote on Mar 11, 2007 11:01 AM:
" Read the article, the state admits no wrong doing, the FAMILY accepted the settlement and agreed NOT to sue.
As for the training, Trooper Norman had over 15 years with the State Police, that is not a civilian, that is a trained officer, with an excellent record,
Jeff get the facts, you keep posting false statements.
"
consequences wrote on Mar 11, 2007 12:31 PM:
" First off, it's ex-trooper or former-trooper Norman. And while he may have had 15 years exemplary service AND be an otherwise upstanding, god-fearing all around good citizen, he's rightfully facing trial for negligent homicide. A convciction won't change his goodness. Even the best of us make mistakes and many good people spend time behind bars. Refusing to acknowledge the magnitude of Norman's actions defeats your purpose. Yes, it's unfair that a single mistake can ruin a career and a life, but only for those who let it. Quit defending his actions. Quit blaming the family. Realize a lack of objectivity. Reasonable folks understand. Truly honorable people acknowledge and accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Or you can continue to believe that the public needs to be protected from rogue law enforcement officers. "
To consequences wrote on Mar 11, 2007 1:12 PM:
" You don't understand, the family acknowledged Mr Hamley needed to be supervised, he was a special needs individual, who WAS NOT SUPERVISED, that is the families responsiblity, they need to step up speak out that they the family, made a mistake. They the family, by allowing Mr Hamley to be alone on hwy 412, contributed in this horrible tragic ending of his life. Had Mr Hamley been with any supervising him, he would still be here, or at least on that day, his life would not have ended. A conviction, he isn't guilty, he did not commit a crime, so why should he suffer because a family choose not to protect this innocent special needs young man, why should this Trooper even go to trial?? He will always be a Trooper, he earned that title an the respect that goes with it. Ms Hamley, neglected her son, from the words of Bud Hamley, he was Erin's care giver, not the mother, how sad. She didn't report him missing, because she didn't miss him. Bud is the one who misses Erin. The mother should face charges of neglect and endangerment. She committed the crime. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 11, 2007 7:27 PM:
" TO Jeff Your statement"Trooper Norman had over 15 years with the State Police, that is not a civilian, that is a trained officer,
Norman was and still is a civilian working for the state police does not change this status Norman is not facing trial in a military tribunal is he? !!!!!!!!!!
It is very obvious to even the most casual observer Norman got very lazy during his employment with the state one can only assume he got so lazy he missed a continuing ed class or two
Now it is his time to pay as the family will be paying for normans screw up for years 1 mill wont cure the pain of missing a child
"
Denise Allen wrote on Mar 11, 2007 7:33 PM:
" To Jeff: I wish I knew why the grand jury only recommended charges against Norman. I can only assume because Norman was the one that fired the only shot from his shotgun. Again I am only assuming. Should have been communication between the 6 cops. In a way they all had a part to play in this event. But only Norman pulled the trigger as Erin was trying to roll over onto his stomach as ordered to do. I am glad that at least you read the grand jury report. It is very informative. People need to be informed so they can form their own opinions. I must say you are informed and a smart person. Your question regarding the state paying before the court hearing date is an intelligent question! I can not say why. Sorry, but at least you are thinking smart. Maybe when this trial is over we can discuss more. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 11, 2007 7:43 PM:
" To Jeff Your too funny I read the article your really in a closet. 99.9999% of all settlements are worded with with a no wrongdoing statement
The state knew without a doubt they would sink before opening statements were finished if the case went to a jury further more the state didnt want to pay interest on the award incured during the appeal process. The State Said in effect We Know without a doubt Norman is Guilty lets cut our losses and get out. Ill bet the deal took 10 min at most.
You are the only defenders of Norman The state ran and left you looking the fool "
So Trooper Norman did his job perfectly? wrote on Mar 11, 2007 9:07 PM:
" He did not wrong in his firing of a weapon. He did it the way every officer was supposed to do, just like how they teach in most every academy? He was guilty of nothing because? You say so? Could you please explain to us that, for I could gladly give you a detailed thesis on the Ladder of Force and Tombstone Courage! "
Hey Jeff wrote on Mar 11, 2007 9:09 PM:
" We agree with the other post and the post to Mr Bud Hamley was right on, it was about time someone stated the facts and stopped tip-toeing around a sensitive but very vital fact.
We too support Trooper Norman, we are sorry for the loss of Mr Hamley and are sorry for his brother carrying the guilt, but we agree. "
To So Trooper Norman did his job: wrote on Mar 11, 2007 9:25 PM:
" Trooper Norman did not commit a crime,
he is innocent, because the trial hasn't happened, in the USA we are innocent until proven guilty.
There will be a trial, I have faith in the justice system to listen to the facts that will be presented and he will be found within reason he did his job, it had a tradgic ending, but that ending was not his choice, that choice was made by Mr Hamley, again, the facts are Mr Hamley did not do as the officers ordered, unfortunately Mr Hamley was unable to communicate, therefore, placing himself at great danger, but that wasn't Mr Hamley fault, and it wasn't the Trooper Normans fault,
Fact: Mr Hamley was unsupervised and unable to communicate with others.
Fact: Mr Hamley was neglected and allowed to walk on hwy 412.
Fact: Mr Hamley was never reported missing. This was not the first time,
He had been in Rogers numberous times prior to this incident.
Fact: the other officers retreated, leaving Trooper Norman to cover them, and the shot was fired.
Fact: Trooper Norman was trained he and the other officers acted within reason and did their job, they were not at fault.
Fact: the lack of supervision is why Erin is not with us today.
FACTS -- "
if Norman is guilty of no crime wrote on Mar 11, 2007 9:35 PM:
" then why are you acting like Mrs. Hamley is? That is a bit hypocritical isn't it? Of Course, Trooper Norman hasn't had his day in court yet but to say he is innocent is a twisting of perception. He is neither guilty nor innocent until he has his day in court. FACT!!!!! "
So.... wrote on Mar 11, 2007 10:02 PM:
" If a cop tells someone to stop and they run, is the cop allowed to shoot them? Wouldn't that be the same failure to follow instructions. What has happened to this country that cops and cop supporters think this is OK? "
Get your facts wrote on Mar 11, 2007 10:22 PM:
" Ok, one last time, you was responsible for Erin Hamley, the family has already stated he was a special needs young man, who needed supervision. So why would that not fall back on the guardian? Mothers are to protect and guard their children, FACT. I realize this had been given to Bud, however Bud being the brother wasn't here, and he was the brother, he should not have had to raise his brother, or be the guardian, help is ok, but not be responsible. So when did parents stop being responsible for their children,
normally when they reach 18, but when there is a special needs child such as Erin, they never stop being responsible.
Who let Erin walk the streets alone? Who didn't report him missing, and why?
If they aren't responsible then who is?
It is quit simple had the guardian been supervising Mr Hamley, he would not have been on 412, he would not have been shot on that fatal day, the guardian let this special needs individual alone to walk hwy 412, and now they are trying to place blame on someone else, that is wrong.
There was neglect and child endangerment on the part of the guardian. "
To So wrote on Mar 11, 2007 10:25 PM:
" If for some reason someone is running from the police, they the police have every right to use whatever means to stop that person. Just suppose, the person running from the police, just killed your wife, and raped your daughter, what would you want the police to do. If the person is running there is a reason and it isn't for exercise.
Seriously get real and stop watching TV, "
The Chewbacca Defense Theory! wrote on Mar 11, 2007 10:36 PM:
" That is exactly what we have hear. Ladies and Gentleman...you are witnessing the Johnny Cocheran (God Bless his soul and my spelling of his name) Defense tactics that helped "acquit" someone named...O.J. Not saying that O.J. and Trooper Norman are related, but the defense style of blaming the fact that a 8 ft tall Wookie would even consider living with 4 ft tall Ewoks makes absolutely no sense. And if Chewbacca living with Ewoks makes no sense, then this case makes no sense...then the trial of Trooper Norman makes no sense. Hence you must acquit! "
Just because he is running wrote on Mar 11, 2007 10:38 PM:
" Does NOT give the police every right to use whatever means to stop that person. That is just plain WRONG. You do not shoot someone because they stole baseball cards from a store. Even John Wayne would understand that. "
Too much TV wrote on Mar 11, 2007 10:50 PM:
" John Wayne wasn't a police officer.
he was an actor.
We are dealing in REAL situations, not TV, not acting.
When someone runs from the police, there is a reason.
So what exactly would you have them do?
stop or I call your mommy, please, at which time the runner/criminal pulls out a semi automatic and shoots ( oops is that just plain wrong) can the police shoot now, oh no, he is dead.
Does that make you happy.
Then the next time you have a wreck, the next time you need an officer don't call, take care of the situation yourself, after all I am sure no one is going to harm you.
"
Actual you are wrong wrote on Mar 12, 2007 4:37 AM:
" Today's police office disfuse situations daily whether it be domestic, criminals running from them, or drug raids or child molestors, thieves and rapist without using deadly force, they are prepared if they need to, but very seldom do they resort to using deadly force.
Not one of them ever want to pull that trigger, however they are trained and ready if they HAVE to.
At this point, think what you want, you and I will never agree, you have the mentality that all officers are "trigger happy jerks" out for the thrill - how sad you beleive that.
I know these men and women I respect them and I trust them, I am so very honored to have had them in my home and to call them FRIENDS, I know they wear that badge with honor and that we should be very proud of them. They place their lives on the line and yet you all don't care. I knew we had people in NWA who did not respect law enforcement or what they stand, I never realized how many people could "hate" them to this extent.
You should never judge someone until you can walk at least a mile in their shoes, unfortunately you can't even put those shoes on, I have debated with facts and not emotion, can't say the same for the rest of you. Someday you will dial "911" and you can thank God they will respond. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 12, 2007 8:08 AM:
" Also your posting that the cops put their lives on the line every day and we need to put their shoes on and we couldnt make it a mile ect how funny Police work is not in the top 10 most dangerous jobs their are thousands of workers who put their lives on the line every day doing work that is many more times dangerous and the stress level much higher that the cops who are not in the top 10 in stress either. Sorry facts back up these statements maybe if Norman turned is radio down when the fugitive bono fides was being broadcast and also read the description of ledford he wouldnt have shot hamely as the two did not match up in anyway "
grand jury report wrote on Mar 12, 2007 8:44 AM:
" Says Norman had a "gut feeling" that the unidentified suspect was in fact Adam Leadford. He was wrong, but never bothered to consider that possibility. He had his mind made up before his cruiser first topped 100 mph with music blaring over am/fm radio. The scene he stormed was not stable, but it was contained until he arrived, at least that's how the gjr reads. What is it that gave him the right to charge in, assume command and blast away without any additional knowledge? "
So.... wrote on Mar 12, 2007 9:04 AM:
" Someday you will dial "911" and you can thank God they will respond."
God has nothing to do with it. My tax dollars have more to do with it than god. Get real. And since my tax dollars are what supports cops, I have the right- no the duty- to question and demand a higher standard without "walking in their shoes". If cops want to be respected, they need to be held accountable for their actions, and give the citizens they are charged with serving respect. The public is not your enemy, it is your boss. Do not ever forget that. No matter if you think we're all idiots and do not deserve your help, as long as you are on the public's dime, you will be accountable to us. "
We don't hate cops it is quite the opposite wrote on Mar 12, 2007 11:34 AM:
" but because we hold those that carry that badge of honorat such a high regard of respect and admiration, we also hold them up to a higher level of action. This isn't about being cop haters, if you read most of what people have said, you would have comprehended that this is about Trooper Norman and his potentialy negligent quick trigger. If you can not understand that, then you have been debating yourself. For all you have said so far is the All Cops are awesome and that Trooper Norman is innocent without a trail. You convicted the mother of her sons death and twisted every possible scenerio to take any blame away from Trooper Norman. Trooper Norman could be the most wonderful human on this planet, but he should still have to explain his actions to "we the people" in a trial. "We the People" deserve to know if he was negligent or not. Just because the state settled with the family doesn't mean that something was wrong and a full detailed investigation of the matter should be done for we could learn from any mistakes made and hopefully use it as a training method so things like this have a lower percentage of happening again. "
so jeff wrote on Mar 12, 2007 2:27 PM:
" So what you are saying is you would like the state police to stop calling and asking you for donations every year. Don't you have anything better to do than bash that poor trooper. I get the feeling that he has written you a ticket for something and that is really the money you are mad about. My prayers go out to both families. Jeff I am sorry you are so unhappy but posting mean stuff Norman isn't going to make you happy because it certainly would have done it by now. "
Well, wrote on Mar 12, 2007 4:25 PM:
" It seems I have made my point, you all have read but not listened, re-read the post and then comment, comment without the emotion, this is about facts, and so far all I hear is hate,
So when Trooper Norman goes to trial, and ALL the facts are presented and the situation with the radio,you will see the Grand Jury did NOT have all the facts, you all do NOT have all the facts, so call it a day and hope that both families will heal,
One family lost a loved one, by blaming others they will not heal,
they have to be honest and look at themselves for answers. Trooper Norman
and his family are living their own hell and no they don't deserve that, any more than Bud Hamley deserves his pain., so look for the source, of the problem.
The trail will make most of you realize you are wrong.
Enjoy your evening and hope you don't need an officer tonight, tomorrow or next week.
And yes God has everything to do with our lives, maybe that is why you are so bitter.
"
To Jeff wrote on Mar 12, 2007 5:29 PM:
" No where in the report does the Grand Jury state Norman is a screw up - WRONG AGAIN.
Jeff the Grand Jury report has not been released to the public, some paragraphs may be floating but the report is not. WRONG AGAIN.
And if Trooper Normans child were to disappear, I am certain, he would have him reported missing within an hour, he loves his children.
The only people responsible for Mr Hamleys untimely death is the guardian, I have never said any one else was to blame, just the guardian.
Parents need to be responsible for their children as Ms Hamley should have been responsible for her son,
she wasn't therefore his life ended.
She didn't report him missing, Bud admitted he was the one responsible and yet he was away at war, so why should he bear this burden, he shouldn't, he, Bud is not to blame, the mother failed, sad but true, simple fact. Neglect and child endangerment, that she is guilty of
Not BUD.
NOT TROOPER NORMAN, Ms Hamley
neglected her son like it or not,that is the fact
"
Sad times wrote on Mar 12, 2007 5:53 PM:
" That is your opinion. Show me the charges against Mrs. Hamley. There are none. You are wrong again. You are not arguing with facts, just opinions, and your opinions are no more or less valid than others. Stop trying to pass your opinion off as fact. One person has been charged in this incident. Trooper Norman. One person pulled the trigger. Mrs. Hamley?? No. trooper Norman again. "
To Sad Times wrote on Mar 12, 2007 6:52 PM:
" Who was responsible for Erin Hamley?
Answer the guardian.
Had Mr Hamley been supervised he would not have been on the hwy alone,this is fact. How can you say that these are not facts.
A parent is responsible for their child:fact
Mr Hamley was a special needs individual: fact, and confirmed by the family, more than once.
Mr Hamley could not communicate with the police: fact
So with these facts the conclusion is drawn the mother/guardian was responsible for Mr Hamley, why is that so difficult to see.
Mr Hamley was missing, his mother did not report him: fact
He had been missing and found in Rogers numberous times: fact, check the Rogers PD
Had Mr Hamley been with supervision he would not have been alone on hwy 412 where his life ended. FACT not opinion
Trooper Norman was not his guardian, he did not allow him to roam the streets unsupervised, so why because the guardian show neglect, do you insist to place blame on Trooper Norman. He is innocent until proved guilty in a trial -
Ms Hamley neglected Erin, fact.
She allowed him to be without supervision and she did not report him missing. Neglect.: FACT "
why wrote on Mar 12, 2007 7:13 PM:
" If it was neglect, and had happened all kinds of other times, then why were there no charges? Continued insistance that Erin Hamley had to be protected from Larry Norman reflects only on your argument and Norman's apparent predispostion toward violence. And it does not reflect well. "
To "Well" wrote on Mar 12, 2007 7:43 PM:
" If officers share your type of hatred, then I hope we don't need them. Cops shouldn't hate those they are sworn to protect, you sound too filled with hate to be of any service to our communities. My your Chewbacca Defense continue somewhere else cause we are not buying it. "
To why and to to well wrote on Mar 12, 2007 7:59 PM:
" First I am not an officer, I do not show hatred. I speak the truth/facts.
Why Ms Hamley had not been charged with neglect previously is because her son Bud, had taken care of Erin, facts and quotation from his prior post.
Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it shouldn't. How and why do you say I am filled with hate.
I have stated or said anything of hatred towards anyone. You all are the ones showing hatred and just down right mean.
Erin Hamley needed supervision, I never said he needed protected from Trooper Norman. He needed supervised
you are adding words that aren't there.
I really don't care if you buy anything or not, Not once has any of the PRO post stated anything about hating the people they protect, they have been just the opposite.
I am not filled with hate,but you are again twisted the facts so new readers won't read all the post, you are wrong
The officers I know love what they do, if they didn't they wouldn't have chosen this career, they have to deal with you, they protect you every day and night.
I am curious, could you reply correctly without confusing the facts "
I would be more than happy to if you could do the same wrote on Mar 12, 2007 9:44 PM:
" You consistantly shift the conversation of Trooper Norman away from his questionable actions and put all the emphasis on Mrs. Hamely. I understand the desire to place some of the accountability on the person who is legally the supervisor of the dead young man who was in need of constant supervision due to the mental illness. I fully respect pointing that out, but you seem to go far and beyond just pointing that out. You seem to be on a cruisade to shift the discussion from the questionable firing of that Deadly Weapon to a supervision crime. The facts are that an investigation into the shooting should be done. A lesson to all those that are supervising humans with mental illness such as Erin needs to be taught/stressed to all. But just because 1 wrong happened, doesn't cancel out the other wrong. In fact, the other wrong in itself, cause a death and we need to know if it was a wrongful death. There is so much to this that a full detailed honest investigation should be brought forth. This has NOTHING to do with the personality of the officer in question, but EVERYTHING to do with the letter of the law. Badge wearers have a very difficult job. One of the most unappreciated jobs in the world. You have to be a special breed of human to dedicate you life to serving that public like that. "
I am not trying to wrote on Mar 12, 2007 10:03 PM:
" Confuse the facts of the shooting, Yes I agree there will be a trial, and once all the evidence is presented the case will/should look much different that has been portrayed or painted by the press/this web site.
I am not trying to be rude or hateful, in the comments I have a point that played a very important part in this shooting. I understand Bud Hamley is hurting, I want him to understand he should not bear this burden, he lost his brother, he will never be the same, he truly misses Erin.
At this time I will leave it at that,
the trial will happen, facts will be presented and I have faith justice will happen, I wasn't there, but I do support Trooper Norman and all the officers. The hate towards officers on this web site is frighting.
"
Let the trial be fair and honest wrote on Mar 12, 2007 10:38 PM:
" This is an unfortunate experience. Yes, some of the disrespect towards law enforcement officials is frightning, but some is warrented. I have traveled this country quite a bit. Some of the officers are the most kind hearted humans that you would ever find (most of them are Former Marines :) ) while some are the either the vile crooked cop or the Barney Fife. So I do understand both sides of this issue. I wore the badge for 6 years and did not want to continue for many reasons...dirty cops was just one of them, as was cop haters as another. So I am really sensitive to inappropriate behavior hence this shooting has very questionable instances. I respect what both sides of this would be going through. Nobody wants to fire that weapon, specially when they find out that the person they just shot and killed was an innocent mentally ill human. You can save 99 lives but it is the one that you didn't save is usually the one that you are remembered by. So with that, I do feel bad for the officer. Nothing can bring Erin back, but if all the information pertaining to the death was aired, maybe that could at least put that part to rest. Erin's last words are hard for anyone to hear. "
Denise Allen wrote on Mar 12, 2007 11:10 PM:
" So you think the information pertaining to Erin's death should be aired? Do you think the general public could stomach listening or watching? I do think the public needs to know somethings, but to know everything could make a person down right physically sick. "
If you want the truth of the incident then yes wrote on Mar 12, 2007 11:36 PM:
" If we are going to go through with a detailed investigation, the unfortunately the public should know about it. What would you censor from the public? What do you think should be withheld in order to quell the stomachs of either side? "
To Denise wrote on Mar 12, 2007 11:44 PM:
" I do sympathise with those that may not want certain aspects of any trial open for the public. But am tired of back-door deals and anything that smells like a cover-up. I would rather the system be open to the public as best as humanly possible. "
Sad times wrote on Mar 13, 2007 12:45 AM:
" Its a pretty far leap to say Mr. Hamley's untimley death was caused by him not being supervised. If he was struck by a car because he wandered into the road, yes. If he fell off a cliff, yes, that would be his fault. But the Fact is he was doing nothing more than walking down the road and he was gunned down. I too am confident a jury will do the right thing. I would encourage the Hamleys to pursue a civil suit as well. "
Denise Allen wrote on Mar 13, 2007 1:07 AM:
" I would like an open trial. I also would like to be considerate of other people. What I've seen made me sick and I was not pregnant at the time! All I am saying is I would want to spare people from being sick. It is not a way of covering anything up. I am just a kind-hearted person. Being almost 5 months pregnant I know what it is like throwing up daily. NOT PLEASANT!! But if you want all the blood, guts and gore of the case, I suppose the court could air it. If it is aired and someone gets sick, remember what my intentions were. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 13, 2007 1:25 AM:
" God help all the school kids walking home! targets? The spin put on this blog is sickining to even the most casual reader I can say this at the diner this am 100% were in agreement norman crossed the line not 1 cop hater in the bunch just common sense and yes we are the cops bosses we pay the tab we can investigate and yes we are seeing the results of crapy cop work and serious lack of training "
funny... wrote on Mar 13, 2007 4:36 AM:
" Isn't it funny how 1 million dollars eased the pain of this poor family on the east side of Springdale. I still maintain that the family should have been investigated, at least, for allowing a adult child, whom they had power of attorney over, to just wnader aimlessly about NW Arkansas. Maybe Trooper Norman was in the wrong, I do not know, I wasn't there. Hopefully the blood money will ease their pain. "
To Denise wrote on Mar 13, 2007 6:12 AM:
" Adding a little drama aren't we, makes for good reading, but we are dealing with facts, not soap opera staged drama
ALL the facts will be presented at the trial, everything that has not yet been presented will show why things occured in the sequence and how each and every aspect of that day happened and how it has been so blown out of porportion to the truth. So just wait and see the outcome of the trial
Let justice be served,
Trooper Norman deserves respect and your family deserves to heal.
"
Jeff wrote on Mar 13, 2007 7:54 AM:
" There is no Respect for rogue cops they are a danger to society. I guess you have respect for the gentry cop who was just sentenced for doing baby girls, at least the girls are alive in Normans case his neglegence caused death Respect? I do not respect gut feelings I respect honest police work. Just because we do not respect rogue cops does not mean that we disrespect all police.As for the out of porportionbs that is hog wash "
fortunate wrote on Mar 13, 2007 9:12 AM:
" I hope none of you who are criticizing norman's mistake are ever involved in a car accident that takes someones life. An accident is an accident, sometimes they are caused by a momentary lapse in judgement. Probably every one of you drive. You operate a vehicle that could potentially take another's life. Norman made a terrible mistake, you can argue until the cows come home about it. It does not make him a bad person nor does it mean he woke up that morning with the intention of taking a human life. He was probably genuinely scared that he was dealing with a dangerous criminal before that incident took place which probably caused him to react the way he did. He is not a murderer. That boy's mom doesn't need to people criticizing her either. The criminal that boy was mistaken for is the ultimately responsible, his capture proved that he was every bit as dangerous as norman was expecting.Only norman had the wrong guy. Norman is a good man who made a terrible mistake. It is easy to judge until you make a mistake that you have to live with and then you can understand norman. I believe we should stop pointing blame and pray for all families involved to heal. We need to stop acting like a bunch of vultures picking at the wounded. "
nuances wrote on Mar 13, 2007 9:33 AM:
" Would the shooting - under the same circumstances - have been justified if the victim had been Michigan escapee Adam Leadford???? Some arguments in Norman's defense certainly point in that direction. There are problems with that rationale, though at least one individual righfully questioned such a circumstance. The mistake Norman made was not just that he killed the wrong guy. "
good question wrote on Mar 13, 2007 11:55 AM:
" I brought that concept up earlier in the thread. I believe that if Leadford's identity was still not know at the time the trigger was pulled, we would still have the same arguement, but just not with the same amount of emtions, for after the death, it would be made clear that it was Leadford. NOW if the identity of Leadford was known before the trigger was pulled, then I do believe that this would be categorized in the "well, the cop thought he was pulling for a gun" or something to that effect magnitude. I for one would be arguing in his behalf contriar to where I seem to be argueing now. Yes, Norman's mistake was he shot an innocent man and that is hard to take from all three sides of this scenario. I hope all of us can heal from something like this. "
to fortunate wrote on Mar 13, 2007 12:05 PM:
" Very well said. It is a horrible mistake. Humans make mistakes all the time. But when a mistake is made that causes grave or severe bodily injury, some sort of honest investigation needs to done to see if this mistake could have been prevented better in the future. People that say that Norman did nothing wrong should wait until their is a detailed honest investigation, people that say that he did do something wrong should wait til there is a detailed honest investigation. Yes, Norman probably had his blood pumping at max force when on the scene. Having your gun drawn out with a felon isn't something that happens everyday. It is a special event (special not in the positive sense). That is where training comes into play. Everytime that I had my weapon drawn while on duty, I had the voices of all my trainers echoeing in my ears saying calm down, think rational, etc. Cause getting over-excited in a situation could mean grave or severe bodily injuring for either yourself, the suspect, or your brothers/sisters with that badge of honor. I do hope more information comes out and Trooper Norman is cleared of any wrong-doing, but from the information out now...it doesn't look so good. "
drawn weapons wrote on Mar 13, 2007 12:28 PM:
" How does one draw a shotgun?? Norman did not draw a service weapon. When I had a dept. issued weapon it was a revolver. Theses days they're more likely not that simple, but NOT shotguns. "
AD wrote on Mar 13, 2007 12:46 PM:
" Well lets see... WCSO deputies seemed to have the situation in a status where Hamley was not hurting anyone or making any threats towards anyone or himself. The only thing that was happening before Larry Norman got there was a traffic jam on US 412.... It seems that a mature... "career" police officer would have held his position and called for a K9, or less than lethal gun, or possibly cover until they could get 25 feet from him and shoot him with a taser gun, or maybe a negotiator... Well I promise I could keep going and going with different options rather than pulling up in the median without communicating with any of the WCSO deputies who had the scene, get his shotgun out, walk out and shoot Hamley for doing exactly what he was instructing him to do.. This really does hurt what the public thinks of police officers.. One cop that should have swallowed his ego and been a professional police officer rather than what he did causes many thousands of people to think bad of police officers. This makes me sick. "
Dani~Mari wrote on Mar 13, 2007 7:12 PM:
" how could someone blame poor hamleys mother how could you? so you say norman isnt guilty!! so if you go into a hopital for emergency appendix surgery and the the doc doesnt follow commanding orders and takes out your heart and you die. he isnt guilty . same as norman right. and if your mom sues the hopital. and gets a million. shes a greedy money launder right. thats plain and cleary what your saying. hey men next time you reach in your pocket for your wallet you might get shot with a shotgun.. "
davidhamley wrote on Mar 14, 2007 1:35 PM:
" To Bud, glad you made it back from iraq safe bro.. i wish i would have been here too but i wasnt even though i wasnt as close to erin as you were i still miss him and i wish this would never have happened but you cant blame yourself.. To Denise, hope your doing good sry if i upset you when i called the other day it wasnt my intention... "
To Denise wrote on Mar 14, 2007 8:51 PM:
" Do you really think you and your family could carry on an argument on this website and not have the post removed. This web site isn't about you and all your family troubles.
Lord you have a few.
This website is about a incident that happened on hwy 412, when a young man lost his life, because his family was too busy to supervise him and make sure he was safe, instead, he was all alone on a very busy hwy unable to communicate with anyone, most of all the police, he wasn't even reported missing, family too busy to notice.
And now they want to blame an innocent man, because he was doing his job,
Glad I printed those post,before they were deleted,
"
If Erin would not have been born wrote on Mar 14, 2007 11:07 PM:
" the incident would not have happened also. If "Trooper" Norman wasn't born, or if he decided to have a different career rather than law enforcement, this might not have happened too. If Mars would have invaded the day before the incident, the incident probably would not have happened. If Global Warming attacks 2 days before the "Day After Tomorrow", would we be here to talk about the incident? "
Jeff wrote on Mar 15, 2007 12:02 AM:
" To the folks who are blaming the death on the family due to lack of communication. Police arrest people every day who cannot communicate with them until an interpeter is brought in to communicate for law enforcement with the individual who the police want to talk to I do see see bodies laying along side our highways nor do I read od daily multiple shootings between law enforcement and those who speak other languages in NW AR so the argument using hamleys as a strawman who is to blame is just as ignorant as saying normans wife made him do it. Terrible police work negelenge to the point of death training? We just heard the same joes on the other string tell us how much training the cops had for those who are mentally challenged.As for your trooper Norman the proper title is EX TROOPER NORMAN CHARGED WITH THE SERIOUS CRIME NEGLEGENT HOMOCIDE No I do not think norman is trooper anyone those days ended when he chose to rock and roll his way to retirement party that ended with his killing an innocent man A real disgrace to every honest police officer in America.I am very sure that Norman will be sued personally as soon as the trial is over.The attorneys are already lineing up to collect whatever the homeowners ins ect will pay watch. "
To Jeff wrote on Mar 15, 2007 5:00 AM:
" Let's see Ms Hamley is/was Erin's mother, she is responsible to care and provide for him, see he is protected and nuture him. Well why would she not be responsible for him on the day of the incident??? It has been quoted, Erin had a routine, when he didn't return from the park, why was he not reported missing, why did the loving family not go looking for him, why why why......??? Because they didn't miss him. She is mother/guardian she is responsible for him, she neglected Erin, so why on earth do you not want to face the fact, this played a role in his death.
As for Homeowners Insurance, this has nothing to do with this case.
Jeff you really need to get the facts, and at the trial you will have more facts than you could imagine, and then you will see that you are wrong,
All the facts are not out, and why should they be, Trooper Norman hasn't gone to trial, the Grand Jury didn't hear all the facts only what Robin Greene allowed them to hear, what was presented by her,
So again innocent until proven guilty,
and I am confident the jury will find without a doubt innocent. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 15, 2007 8:16 AM:
" Cant you see the state knows Norman is sunk duck just as we all know Norman is sunk duck hamley was 21 yr old it is not the familys fault there are hundreds of folks in our local area who cannot speak english very well and we are not gunning them down your argument is an insult to all in NWA and the USA Hamelys mom was not responsible for him as you insinuate the man was 21. The family had no legal mandate to watch the man your still playing strawman when everyone else knows Norman eas the shooter "
Jeff wrote on Mar 15, 2007 8:28 AM:
" TO Jeff, Who do you think will be signing the ck when the hamleys sue Norman personally? Normans homeowners Ins will be one of the parties signing a ck and then the leins will be filed against Norman so owning a groc cart will be next to impossible for the man
You have been telling us for days it is Robin Greens fault Norman is charged and when the trial starts Norman will be set free and all of us are wrong. If this were true as you say Van Stone would have dropped the charges long ago
Not the case so your Strawmann Robin and the hamleys are out of the picture Now who fault is it that Norman shot and Killed an innocent man Ops the inanimate object the gun did it now your horse died last year and Norman is close to paying the price for his actions as for your we do not know the events your sadley mistaken "
dizzy wrote on Mar 15, 2007 8:57 AM:
" I keep seeing that the family is beeing comp. but the money doesn't make things right.I lost a child a year ago I know some of the pain the famiy is going though. and trust me the money does not help "
mary hamley wrote on Mar 15, 2007 9:20 AM:
" I would like to ask everyone for prayers for Specialist bud hamley he is 23 years old at fort still ok just recieved word that he has melanoma skin cancer stage two. thank you mary hamley "
to hamley & norman families wrote on Mar 15, 2007 11:22 AM:
" I send my condolences to all. My prayers are with the Hamleys and the Normans. I am sorry if you are reading these posts, some written by insensitive people who have never walked a mile in your shoes. My husband is a former police officer and my son is disabled. I haven't walked a mile in your shoes but I have an idea what difficult steps that have been made along the way. Don't let these people get you down. Pray to God for guidances to get you through these tough times. I will also pray for the lives of those who so readily judge yours as they too are in obvious need of prayers.so please forgive your trespassers, as so many obviously have forgotten forgiveness and understanding. It is not for any of us to judge you. There will be a calm after the storm and you will all be stronger for weathering it. "
That was very nice wrote on Mar 15, 2007 12:36 PM:
" But we have every right to judge one another. It is how we act upon those judgments that defines us. It is imperative that people question who was watching a mentally handicapped young man while he was on his own walking about, it is also imperative that people question the entire process of detaining a suspect, it is also imperative that people question the firing of that weapon that caused the death of a human. The issue needs all of us to band together and discuss issues that effect our society. It is for us to treat each other with some sort of respect and dignity while we are questioning the actions of others. Mean what you say...just don't be mean when you say it. You don't need to walk a mile in one's shoes to question (judge) behavior. That is what the art of communication bring to the table. It does help to understand better but I don't need to take crack in order to know that being hooked on crack is something I don't want to be nor promote it, I think I can safely say that taking crack is bad m'kay. "
Hey Jeff wrote on Mar 15, 2007 3:57 PM:
" ci·vil·ian
Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\
1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force
This might explain the difference. I hope if you disagree you might be able to look at your dictionary. This was taken from Websters. No one ever said Norman is not considered a civilian now. It is only active personnel. "
Statute number wrote on Mar 15, 2007 4:42 PM:
" Jeff I have read all about how Hamley could not understand the orders given to him. If he can't understand on an adult level, then it doesn't matter if how old he is. Check out 5-28-101 thru 5-28-108. Maybe this will anser some of your questions. Oh by the way, no one is saying Norman is not a civilian now, he is retired. The other officers and firefighters that are still working are not referred to as civilians. Check out the definiton the other poster sent you. Why haven't you answered them yet? Maybe because you have been proven wrong again. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 15, 2007 6:23 PM:
" Cops and Firefighters are civilians and are party to the very same court system as the rest of the civilian population.Non civilian visits what is called a military tribunal. Civilian transportation workers who Licensed by the fed fall into administrative courts which very closely resemble military tribunals because the courts are run and staffed by the military personal
Please provide case law on any cop or fireman who has been to any court other than civil court, or federal court cops and fireman do not get charged and tried in military tribunals as you insinuate "
jeff needs a life wrote on Mar 15, 2007 7:27 PM:
" do you have nothing better to do than argue with people? You seem to have the idea that you are all knowing about all matters. your last name isn't connors is it because you certainly think you are some sort of judge "
To Jeff wrote on Mar 15, 2007 8:29 PM:
" Now that you have the statute you should understand how Ms Hamley was responsible for Erin, her son.
So try again. You just can't get your facts straight, not even one.
All you want to do is argue, I have no more time for you, I have proven my point time and time again, and the Hamleys have posted saying Bud had always been responsible for Erin, so when you can't even take the families word that Erin needed supervision, you aren't listening or reading the comments/facts.
You can't stick to the issue and you won't answer a question,
So Jeff I hope you can become less bitter and enjoy life,
Oh and by the way, Trooper Norman, will have a trial, you do NOT know that he will be sentenced, he is innocent until proven guilty,
He is still an American with rights
whether you like it or not.
"
Sad times wrote on Mar 15, 2007 9:27 PM:
" Erin Hamley was an American with rights whether YOU like it or not. Mr. Norman will indeed have a trial thanks to a panel of citizens.(grand jury) "
Erin won't be able to attend the trial wrote on Mar 15, 2007 9:45 PM:
" We can thank Mr. Norman for that. Not to disrespect what Mr. Norman and his family are going through right now. I could only imagine the anguish and emotional pain he is going through. Whether or not he violated procedures etc, killing an criminal human is hard enough to deal with, killing an innocent one is inimaginable to think of, and killing an innocent mentally handicapped on would be inconcievable to imagine. So do feel sorrow for Mr. Norman and his family for it must be hell right now for them as well as Mr. Bud Hamley and his family. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 16, 2007 12:51 AM:
" A bentonville Firfighter entered a not guility plea to 2 counts of rape the plea was intered in in Judge Clingers court I thought someone posted that fireman and police were not civilians
Is the venue proper ? why is the trial in BC vice a tribunal I do know that an active service member can be on leave in rogers ar rob a bank and never stand trial in BC the man on leave goes to a military tribunal whats up with the firefighter is he lost in the wrong court or is he a civilian? pretty obvious the firefighter is a civilian plain and simple just like norman was before the shooting and after the shooting that is why judge Keith is hearing the case in B'Ville "
ToJeff wrote on Mar 16, 2007 4:19 AM:
" You ask why the Hamleys, were responsible for Erin, ( as if you had to ask anyway ), but the statute gives legal reason why Erin should have had a guardian that was willing to watch over and care for him.
What part of being a parent and being responsible do you not get.???
What part of Erin was handicapped and needed supervision, he could not communicate with others, what part of that do you not get?
This is the responsiblility of the parent/guardian, the rest of the world.
At least Bud Hamley understands that,
unfortunately he wasn't here to protect his brother, and his other siblings didn't step up to the plate and help while he was gone.
I never said it was easy being a parent, being a single parent or being a parent of a special needs child. But Ms Hamley was a parent and with that comes responsibility, Stop putting the responsibility on others, because of her lack of parenting,a innocent man will never be the same. Yes Erin is gone, but that isn't Trooper Normans fault, blame lies with the family, now you have statute to back this fact up.
Neglect and abuse.
Don't bet charges aren't going to be filed. "
Jeff you are wrong wrote on Mar 16, 2007 6:04 AM:
" about member as you say commits a crime in ar they will stand trial in a "civilian " court. You seem to know everything. Can you tell me about the UMCJ? If any member of the military breaks the law while on leave or at any other time, they can and will be charged in "civilian" court. They can also be charged under the UMCJ. Jeff if you were half as smart as you think you are or if everyone else was a dumb as you seem to think they are, you might have a good argument. Get over yourseld, all you are doing is showing your lack of intelligence by trying to insult other people. You can't even read and understand a dictionary or Arkansas Criminal Codes. "
Sad times wrote on Mar 16, 2007 8:32 AM:
" Police are considered civilians in the eyes of the court system if not Websters Dictionary. You people who insist on blaming anyone but mr. Norman are really pathetic. One person pulled the trigger that day. Not Mrs. Hamley. Not Bud Hamley, Not Erin Hamley. Not one of the other officers on the scene. No charges have been filed against the family, and I would bet they will not be filed against the family. I am looking forward to this trial and the ensuing crow you people are going to have to eat. "
To Jeff and Sad Times wrote on Mar 16, 2007 9:27 AM:
" Get this straight,set up and take notice, there will probably not be charges brought against Ms Hamley, however, there can be civil for wrongful death on her part of this whole mess. Did you get that, someone can do that, you both are bullies,
By the way NO ONE has ever said Bud was guilty or should be, he wasn't even hear, besides he is the brother
"
Jeff wrote on Mar 16, 2007 10:18 AM:
" You are calling us bullies when you are attempting to give orders on the blog how funny Take notice of what get what stright your laughable post tell me sargent who is going to file suit against the hamleys? last time I cked the Hamleys are the only party who can prove damages.What are you going to post when the hamleys file a civil suit against Norman, Ill bet the suit will be filed against Norman as soon as the guilty verdict is read. It is painfully obvious the state wants as much distance as then can get from this Norman guy that is why he is a lone duck now "
To Jeff wrote on Mar 16, 2007 10:24 AM:
" First are you ever going to learn to spell? How about the name calling, that is a violation of this web site.
As to answer the question of "who" an average concerned citizen, that is all it takes, and I thought you were the intelligent one. ( ha ha ha)
The statute was taken from the Arkansas Criminal Manual: it is correct I even looked it up and it is confirmed, there you go twisted the words to meet your argument. Things are real simple Jeff, you are not the all knowing, powerful, boss, intelligent person you wish to be.
Get a life, and oh you can't be on the Jury as you wish so desperately, because you are posting here.
So prepare yourself, when the head juror stands and says: Not guilty,
all they have to have is resonable doubt and they can not convict an innocent man. Trooper Norman is innocent, he did his job, he was on duty, and he did not KILL anyone, again look at your Webster Dictionary for definition, I have given it to you numberous times, but you don't seem to get it. Intent, malious,that didn't happen.
Horrible yes, loss of life is always, but NOT Murder. "
Sad times wrote on Mar 16, 2007 10:51 AM:
" I'm pretty sure mr. Norman did kill someone. Here is the dictionary definition you like so much.
kill 1 |kil| verb [ trans. ] 1 cause the death of (a person, animal, or other living thing) : her father was killed in a car crash | [ intrans. ] a robber armed with a shotgun who kills in cold blood. • put an end to or cause the failure or defeat of (something) : the committee voted to kill the project. • stop (a computer program or process). • informal switch off (a light or engine). • informal delete (a line, paragraph, or file) from a document or compu "
sad times wrote on Mar 16, 2007 12:25 PM:
" To kill is different that than to Murder, the shot did kill Mr Hamley
however the events that let up to that are not Trooper Normans, and he is NOT a MURDERER;,big big difference.
You are getting as bad as Jeff "
Sad times wrote on Mar 16, 2007 1:07 PM:
" I was responding to the post that said mr. Norman did not KILL anyone. I don't think mr. Norman's actions could be classified as murder either. Incredibly gross negligence, yes, but not murder. "
There is only one question wrote on Mar 16, 2007 3:30 PM:
" that needs to be answered. At the time of the fatal shot was there any reason for it to happen. It doesn't matter after the fact who the person was. None of this information was available at the time. If Hamley did something that could be construed as being threatening. Then how threatening was it: that is to say did it warrant lethal force. I don't know because I wasn't there. A jury will decide if lethal force was reasonable at the time, not what was learned later. This is a tragedy for all involved. I hope that people can learn from this so it doesn't ever happen again. If Larry Norman is found to have used lethal force without reason, he will be convicted. Unfortunately no one can answer what his thoughts were at the time of the shooting other than him. I know Larry personally and know what type of person he is. I know he would not have shot without reason in his mind. I don't know if he may have overreacted to the situation or if he saw something in Hamley's movements to lead him to believe lethal force was needed at the time. We all know that lethal force was not needed after all the facts came out. This is not meant to say Larry made the right decision, only he knows why it happened. "
THere is only one question wrote on Mar 16, 2007 3:42 PM:
" con't....This is not meant to lay blame on Erin Hamley either. If he did not understand the commands or if he was just playing around no one knows. It is sad to think that life and death decisions are made in split second. I can tell you one thing with certainty, Larry would never had wanted to hurt an innocent person, but that is exactly what happened. It would be wonderful if officer's knew who they were dealing with at all times, but unfortunately this is not the case. Sometimes they deal with not so good people. I hope they never get the attitude that it is us against them. We can second guess forever and never understand why this happened. I only hope there are lessons learned, even though I don't know what they will be. I have read enough blame and hate on this site. If you have comments why not try to be constructive instead of attacking each other. "
good points wrote on Mar 16, 2007 4:11 PM:
" was it daylight or nighttime when the unfortunate incident went down? "
Denise Allen wrote on Mar 16, 2007 4:36 PM:
" To answer Good Points question. The event happened during daylight. Also, please pray for Bud. He finds out today whether the doctors will perform more surgery on the cancer, or he'll have to have chemo. Bud takes care of everyone else and never thinks of himself. "
thank you Ms. Allen wrote on Mar 16, 2007 6:27 PM:
" So that even further complicates the issue. I was assuming that the incident happened in the hours of darkness, but with this happening in daylight, man...I would really like to know what the .... was Mr. Norman thinking at the time that he pulled that trigger. I can see why others want to steer perception away from Mr. Norman and over to the family. I hope Bud's surgery goes well and the cancer gets irradicated. I hope Bud gets past all these obsticles in his life that seem to be bunched together on him right now. I hope that Mr. Norman gets a fair and just trial. "
To Thank you Ms Allen wrote on Mar 16, 2007 7:18 PM:
" No one is shifting the blame, you all need to see the whole picture, and as of yet the entire evidence has not and will not be released until after the trail. However everyone is so quick to judge Trooper Norman for protecting his fellow officers, no stopped to say, and who was taking care of Erin, that allowed him to be alone on that fatal day, that is a huge factor in this case, and will be addressed in length at a later date, I might add.
I wish the best for Bud Hamley,
I wish the best for the Norman family, and for those who are missing and loved Erin.
"
trial wrote on Mar 16, 2007 8:47 PM:
" any evidence released *after* the trial is not evidence and would have absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the trial. "
I think what wrote on Mar 16, 2007 9:06 PM:
" was meant was that the evidence will not be released to the public until after the trial. This is usually done so a jury can be chosen without being tainted by one sided information. "
Sad times wrote on Mar 16, 2007 9:42 PM:
" Mr Norman was obviously not "protecting" his fellow officers since he never saw a weapon. Don't like people being quick to judge huh? What about judging whether to take a human life in less than a minute. "
hard to believe wrote on Mar 16, 2007 9:50 PM:
" that a grand jury - with much less stringent rules of evidence - has not already heard such evidence. "
To hard ot believe wrote on Mar 16, 2007 10:00 PM:
" Well Robin Greene controlled what was said and who testified, what information was given she controlled what the grand jury heard. And for the record,
Trooper Norman will have his day in court and the trial will allow his attorney to present evidence that none of you have any idea exist.
You will understand why the other deputies retreated, and at that moment was why Trooper Norman shot, some day it will all be clear, you may or may not agree and that doesn't matter.
He is innocent until proven guilty
you weren't there so stop speculating, wait until all the evidence has been presented and the trial is over.
"
Sad Times how wrote on Mar 16, 2007 10:28 PM:
" do you know what Norman thought he saw? Were you there? You are making statements that you can not back up with facts. Some of your statements make no sense. Law Enforcement is given the right to make judgements on when to take a life by the laws and the public. You can not judge someone unless you are in their position at the time. This is why the evidence is not released to the public before any trial. A grand jury only makes a decision of whether they think there is enough evidence to take a matter to trial. They do not convict. Their finding has no bearing on the outcome of a trial. Let's wait and see what Norman's reason was for using deadly force at the time. It can only be judged by what was known and the actions taken at the time. I am not defending whether Norman is right or wrong, only that you do not have all the facts to make an informed decision. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 16, 2007 10:41 PM:
" Norman testified under oath that he had a gut feeling that he was actually responding to the real ledford when he recieved the call to head to SS the day Hamley was shotOne can only assume from hearing this statement that Norman had made up his mind the course of action he was going to follow when he arrived at the scene. This statement may very well be hard for him to explain in court why was Norman so quick to pull the shotgun? my guess is is first move upon arrival was to retrieve his shotgun this cause of action most certainly was the result of his admittance he thought he was going to meet ledford long before he arrived on site "
jeff actually made sense on that one!!!! wrote on Mar 16, 2007 11:00 PM:
" :) I can see where Jeff came to that conclusion. Unfortunately, an officer has to assume that it is Leadford and has to assume that is isNOT Leadford all at the same time. This is where extensive training in that area is so vital. Quick judgments, observing the environment, making solid command decisions all in the blink of an eye. God Bless all of our Law Enforcement agencies for their dedication and professionalism. Hopefully we all can learn from this incident. "
TO Jeff wrote on Mar 16, 2007 11:01 PM:
" That is the problem " ASSUME" - you don't assume anything, you wait until the facts are in. PERIOD.
Your "GUESS" , that is also the problem you don't assume nor do you guess.
You don't even know why officers carry shotguns do you?
He was the one with the shotgun because he was covering the Washington County Deputies as they tried to approach Hamley.
Will you stop with the "I assume and I guess" comments. Stick to the facts.
And they are not all in.
You know nothing, because you don't listen and you don't read, you twist everything to fit your "little mind"
When an officer is dispatched to a scene " the plan of action as you call it" is the procedures taught to these officers through hours of training.
Pathetic, give it a rest.
"
Sad times wrote on Mar 17, 2007 9:00 AM:
" If he was so well trained why did he shoot an unarmed citizen? That is the basic question. One I hope will be answered at the trial. I can see why the WCSO deputies felt threatened by a bow and arrow, but to kill someone because of a movement has the appearance of dereliction of duty at the least. Here is Webster's definition of dereliction of duty just in case you wondered. • (usu. dereliction of duty) the shameful failure to fulfill one's obligations. • I have not insinuated that I knew facts other than what has been publicly stated, I have just asked questions. Why is that so uncomfortable for some? "
To Sad Times wrote on Mar 17, 2007 9:08 AM:
" Let me try to answer your questions: First "the shameful failure to fulfill ones' obligations" - that didn't happen in this incident. Trooper Norman fulfilled his duty he covered the other officers and shot when they retreated,reason for retreat, they thought he was reaching for a gun.
The two officers who were shot yesterday in Neosha, one doing a routine traffic stop for an outstanding warrant, shot, will be ok, but nonetheless shot. The other officer who gave pursuit, the suspect stop ahead of him and shot out the windsheild of his police car striking him in the face, he too will survive.
And you still ask why. Erin Hamley would not obey commands given to him.
He kept reaching into his pockets,so do the police officers wait and get shot, no they are trained to shoot, therefore training and procedures were followed.
Hope that cleared things up for you.
"
jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 9:10 AM:
" mr know it all the problem with your argument is the time frame why dont you tell us how long the other police were on scene before norman showed up. This is a big problem if they had all arrived together your argument would be valid.Your problem is Norman arrival time was cosiderably latter the the wc deputies and the other state trooper hence to order to work the hwy. Sorry your post is hot air as for all the training we keep hearing your blowing smoke training is minimal at best and non existant in many cases. "
Jeff do you wrote on Mar 17, 2007 9:21 AM:
" do the training for the area departments? If not then you have no idea of what type of training they recieve. As for the time frame. It doesn't matter. When a shot is fired it is done in a split second. One minute before a shot is an eternity. Ypur time frame argument doesn't stand up. Of course I haven't read any of your arguments that are well thought out, only emotional and uninformed. If you can show proof of one of your statements it might show some intelligence on your part. As for the shotgun, in an armed confrontation a shotgun is the weapon of choice. Do you know if any of the other officers on scene where armed with a shotgun? "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 11:12 AM:
" Hello New York City Indicts 3 policemen for shooting and killing unarmed man
Michael Palladino President of the Detectves endowmant Assoc sys this sends a message to the WHOLE Country
"You can act in good faith,AND THERE IS NO MARGIN FOR ERROR
Normans problem with the FM radio is only one Fatal Flaw! Norman made many decisions and actions that day many of which were fatal flaws that directly contributed to hamleys death
What happened to all his training when you have a gun in your hand pointed at another human there cannot be any margin for error thus Norman is neglegent and I doubt very seriously a jury will find it any other way By the way a panal of Citizens were responsible for the 3 cops being charged in NY. People are tired of the new breed of cop the majority being recent ex military who just cannot seem to comprehend that military and policing are very oppisite types of work in the very near future police depts are going to quit hireing ex mil as it is too expensive in the long run as suits are piling up quick, this action will take place even with the very high demand for police recruits. "
All knowing Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 11:20 AM:
" now he is talking about New York. Ever notice everytime someone poses a question that shows his lsck of intelligence he changes the subject. Jeff it is not working. WHy don't you try to do something constructive instead of being argumentative? You have said numerous times about lack of training, prove it. Oh sorry, you can't. "
All knowing Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 11:48 AM:
" When can lethal force be used? What I am asking is under what circumstances. Let me know if I need to explain this question in terms you can understand. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 11:48 AM:
" All you have is spin? Geographical location Ny, vegas fayettville it does not matter. There is No Margin for Error period As for training I know for a fact training is minimal and AR is a state that allows cops with guns to patrol alone before becoming certified.
also the Detectives Endowment Assoc is a national organization who ill bet has members in our community Spin Spin The message hurts real bad so you resort to trying to destroy the messanger but in your hast to destroy the messanger you have forgotten the majority of the poulation believes as I do Actions like Normans spark riots in the bigger cities and you will see this happen here in the future with the change in racial color happening as fast as it is "
All knowing Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 11:52 AM:
" You still have not given any proof about training. Just because you say it doesn't make it fact. How much training is required? I don't see where the majority thinks as you do. They haven't supported you in anything I've read. Are you wanting riots to happen? I guess we can call on you to take care of them also. You seem to know everything about everything. Dream on. "
I'm a detective and....... wrote on Mar 17, 2007 11:55 AM:
" I have never heard of a Detectives Endowment Association. Please tell me more, I might want to join. It depends on what they are trying to endow. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 11:56 AM:
" My lad your getting hateful! is the truth hurting you? this am What can you not understand about NO Margin For Error this includes playing your AM/FM radio loud enough that the police radio is drowned out enroute to a possible escaped felon sighting and attempted capture norman captured someone alright the state has agreed to pay 1 mil and this came before the trial any kid in high school can figure that one out you just want to wallow under a dead horse and in doing so are creating a bigger problem as you want all to believe that your people are above the law "
All knowing Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:00 PM:
" Jeff I just want to answer some of the questions I have asked. If you can't answer the questions, then anything you say cannot be taken for fact. If you take that as hateful, oh well. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:03 PM:
" As a dective I am sure you know where to find the info to join if not your a very poor excuse for a dective you do not met the definition of dective as listed in the dictionary. "
All knowing Jeff........ wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:04 PM:
" Until you can answer the questions asked of you I will not debate you any longer. I will only discuss this incident with someone who has an intelligent answer or comment. "
Spin Master is in the house wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:06 PM:
" Chewbacca Defense Theory for the whole world to see. Keep trying, it is bringing humor to those that see through your twists and turns. "See the Monkey"! Hahaha. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:25 PM:
" To All Knowing Jeff,Your statement" I just want to answer some of the questions I have asked"
Nobody is stoping you from answering any of your questions. Answer on my friend "
Jeff you do not wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:29 PM:
" know what the majority believes in.
You state fiction, you can't stay with facts. The "RADIO" that will be brought out in the trial, if it were as loud as you say, he would not have known about the incident happening, so that doesn't happen. there is a reason and that will be explained at a later date, I know the answer and so does any officer, but Jeff you do not.!!!!
We are not "spin masters" as you say
These are facts, why do you not want to believe the facts.
They are simple, maybe that is it too simple, you want to make this a drama,
horror story. Tragedy is what it was, but don't continue with the drama, let the trial happen let the truth be told and all the officers testify, then you will know what happened, until then give it a rest.
Seriously Jeff move somewhere else that you seem to like better than NWA, you obvious don't like anything here.
That would get majority vote "
such a bully wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:35 PM:
" Jeff has every right to question the actions of everyone involved. The Grand Jury testimony that was published gives a lot of fuel for debate. Yet you want everyone to ignore facts that can be damaging to Trooper Norman and believe your twist on the events that really do not make a bunch of sense. Yes it was a tragedy for all involved. It is a tragedy for "We the People" too. Hopefully the trial will give us all some understanding of why Erin was shot. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:37 PM:
" To I am a Dective Your posting is implicit and explicit to the whole world on the net proving a serious lack of training "
Not a bully wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:42 PM:
" Jeff has given no facts, I am asking Jeff to stick to the facts and stop speculation and accusations that he can not prove.Erin was shot, because he could not communicate with the officers, he did not obey commands, he kept reaching under his jacket, in his pockets, he did not lie still so they could cuff him, had he done that, he would have been alive. Had his mother not allowed him to be alone, he would be here today, those are the reasons
Trooper Norman and the other officers were with the procedures as they followed to have fired upon Mr Hamley
unfortunate yes, tragedy absolutely,
All I ask is Jeff stick to facts, he has posted slanderous remarks from the beginning and his post are not true, he is the twister not the rest of us.
"Bully" isn't even close. Just asking that facts be posted. Or say in your opinion, - we all have opinions,
don't mix opinion with facts.
There is an innocent man standing trail on facts, we shouldn't hang him here. "
What Majority? wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:42 PM:
" And what facts are you saying? The facts that you give can be interpreted in many different ways as to the cause/effect. I feel bad for Mr. Norman, I really do. I must be extremely difficult for him and his family right now. But my emotions for him must be suspended in order to better understand what happened in that one minute he was on scene and decided to pull that trigger. That is not too much to ask for anyone on either side. The issue is not about whether or not Erin should have been there (I too wish he was supervised better and was not allowed to walk aimlessly around a busy road on a day that he fit the description of a wanted felon). There is a legit concern about the shooting. It is our obligation as a society to better itself whenever possible. I would like our future law enforcement officials to learn from this case as a reference of what not to do when in a situation. I can see more flaws with his actions that pros. But that is only cause we ALL have limited information. None of us may ever know the real full truth. We may get distortion of it..etc. I was a very stern Police Sgt and demanded nothing but the highest form of professionalism and perfection when wearing that badge of honor. "
The Trial will prove his innocence or guilt wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:52 PM:
" To say he is "innocent" is a twist of the wording. He is only innocent cause he hasn't been to a trial yet. The way you worded it, all suspects are innocent, hence we are all trying innocent people for crimes...that is not true. Trooper Norman maybe innocent or maybe guilty, that is for the trial to decide. Your use of saying he is innocent is steering perception to make it that Trooper Norman did nothing wrong and that we should treat this as such. Saying he is an innocent man is your opinion that you have all the right to say, just as if Jeff would say that Trooper Norman is a guilty man...he has every right to say. The trial will help all of our understanding and he will either be found innocent or guilty. Yes, Jeff sometimes gets "out-there" in some of his thinking. He sometimes defeats his arguements by his emotional tyrades that minimize his words, but I have seen the exact same thing from the other side of the issue. You both are too emotionally based in this and usually talk around each other instead of maturely talking too each other. That last remark minimizing Jeff's outside material that helped try to understand his point, was very immature and very disrespectful. Everyone group hug and lets remember that we have a bunch of lives that need our love and not our hate. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 12:55 PM:
" Why has the state agreed to pay 7 FIGURES before thr trial of Norman?
I am surprised that the state agreed to pay when we have all these officers lined up to explain the grand jury is wrong and the state is wrong it would seem the state would have listened to the officers who were on scene and never settled so quick also why didnt the state file charges against the Hamleys with all this Pro Norman testimony from the WCSO and ASP vindicating Norman from any wrong.
Fact cks do not get written for those amounts unless the party in the wrong knows without a doubt their losses will be much higher if taken to a jury trial. So you cut your losses and run
I am really not surprised that the Pro shooters are trying to cover up a terrible wrong. They have come to think they are above the very laws they are charged with enforcing Ill still bet Hamleys file a personal suit against Norman after the trial mostlikely with a few short hours. And the terrible things you have said about Robin Green will have been proven false. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 1:02 PM:
" Sorry pal the law had no reason to cuff erin there is no law prohibiting walking down the road.This is the USA not China or Russia also erin had no warrants for his arrest
Fact the state has paid 1 mil before trial if Norman was correct in shooting Hamley then all AR citizens have been descriminated against by the state. where is my million where is your million
Isnt it fact the state has paid 1 million to the hamley family I havnt read where the legislature has voted to pay Norman a million where is Normans money? When is the vote? "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 1:11 PM:
" Erins discription was not even close to looking like ledford more spin
why has the state paid 1 mil before the trial? "
ya see this is where the clouds get gray wrote on Mar 17, 2007 1:13 PM:
" On one breath it is not ok to search a detainee cause he has committed no crime nor had warrants (well...if you knew that he had none of the above, then why have him as a detainee?). Then on the other breath it is ok to shoot someone cause he didn't follow directions...which is it? see where somethings just don't make sense? The explaination to Jeff's question makes really no sense, and that is mostly what the Chewbacca Defense Theory is all about. "
hey Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 1:21 PM:
" becareful saying "pro-cops" in this discussion. It is more appropriate saying "Pro-Norman" cause that is what is the topic. Not all current/former badge of honor wearers are for Norman in this and not all are against. I think we can all agree that the job is a very difficult job and being in the position that any of the officers were in is something that is extemely difficult and couragous. Whether you agree or not that Trooper Norman had a valid shoot or not, we should all agree that being in that position is something that none of us want to be in. "
Sad times wrote on Mar 17, 2007 1:33 PM:
" Since the pro-Norman crowd like facts so much try this one on. HAMLEY DID NOT HAVE A WEAPON!
How do you not understand that?? No weapon, no threat. The only threat was in Norman's head. No matter how much you spin it, Hamley was unarmed. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 1:40 PM:
" With all the evidence we are told that exonerates Norman with all the officers waiting in line to provide testimony on Normans behalf. one can factually assume the state would have defended itself for a fraction of the million they paid to Hamley,Also the state would have dropped its criminal charges against Norman if not for the simple fact they wouldnt want to face a 2nd suit from Norman after already paying a mil. making false criminal accusations against an individual is going to result in a civil suit 99.999% of the time. Further more no lawyer would have wasted his time representing the Hamleys I am really amazed the pros continue to think we are so stupid we cannot understand see the factual happenings yet they continue to wollow around the dead horse. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 1:47 PM:
" You are correct I should have said Normans supporters thank you you are 100% correct one of my best friends is a police officer and he knows who is responsible for the death That and that alone is why the state has a signed an agreement for payment of 1 Mil to the hamleys
Fact #2 Larry Norman Shot Erin Hamley "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 2:35 PM:
" Fact# 4 All the posts by the Pro Normans telling us the other officers present are lined up to defend Norman Is False
The Other Officers Present are putting as much distance as possible between them and Norman they are very happy and relieved they were not charged along with Norman.
"
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 2:49 PM:
" Fact #5 The majority of police around the country veiw Norman as a Black Eye Who is an embarresesment to the profession.
The majority of police are good people,and honest while carrying out their profession that being their paid civil duty which is to enforce the law according to the constitution of the United States. Although terribly undertrained, and understaffed they work hard for the taxpayers and we thank the honest police for a job well done.
"
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 2:55 PM:
" Fact #6 Paying 1 Million Is Considered To Be An Admission Of Wrongdoing By Even The Most Casual Observer That Being The Majority Of The Population Of The USA "
Jeff your facts wrote on Mar 17, 2007 3:10 PM:
" are aren't facts:To list an argument starting with"fact" doesn't make it a fact those are your opinions:
If they are fact then how do you know the "pro Norman crowd is small" where is your evidence of that?
Why the state agreed to a settlement, that is a sealed document you and no one else knows that.
You are wrong about the other officers at the sight, do you know them?again your opinion
Your fact 5 again is your opinion, he is not a black eye to the officers,he was an outstanding Trooper for over 15years and this incident does NOT make him a bad cop.
A BAD COP:one who steals, one who makes deals with the criminal, one who looks the other way in drug deals, Trooper Norman was NOT a bad cop. FACT
Again you alude to trainging, you have no idea of the amount of training an officer goes through.
The ASP has and this not being the first officer they have hung out to dry, that does not mean Trooper Norman is guilty, the ASP has paid and settled
Again your fact on "majority" you have no basis. These are opinions Jeff.
These are facts you can not back any o of this up with documentation. FACT
Get a life and stop this nonsense.
Do you have a personal grudge against Trooper Norman or is this in general.
Again you have proven nothing. "
I think his list of Facts are in jest wrote on Mar 17, 2007 3:18 PM:
" To respond to the tons of "Facts" that the "Pro-Norman" side have been throwing out carelessly. Most of the facts that either side so far have been opinion. Which is fine in itself as long as we can debate(discuss) them in a reasonable manner. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 3:23 PM:
" Fact #7 For 15 Yrs Larry Norman Was In The Wrong Profession He was Not Qualified To Be A Police Officer
Larry was able to ride the system for 15 years till the system cought up with him.
We have been reminded many times by the pro Normans on this thread the intensive and lengthy training Larry has had over the years so we Know without a doubt he has spent hours and hours training to be a policeman.
What Should have Been Larry's Major Disqualification to Be A Police Officer
Larry Norman Suffered From A Problem Called Acting Before You Think
Guns and Acting before you think do not mix well Thus Norman had no business being a cop as he could not control his actions with a gun when it was a life and death situation and an innocent victim was killed because of this problem , ALL Citizens In The State Of Arkansas Are Paying For 1 Mans Mistake That Mistake Was Caused By Norman And Norman Alone .The Cost? A Life that cannot be replaced at any cost that led to a Million Dollar Payment To The Family of the Shooting Victim. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 3:46 PM:
" Hello Jeff Your Facts, Why Is The State passing legislation to pay the Hamleys 1 Million bucks?
Every One Knows That Our Legislators were not voted into office to pass a law allowing a million dollar payment to the Hamleys
Everyone knows You Dont Pay Unless You Know It Going To Cost More Down The Road
Everyone Knows The State Settled before the trial to gain as much distance from Their Bad Boy Ex Trooper Norman as Possible
I do not understand why you Pro Normans constantly attempt to insult ones intelegence when in all reality the whole world is laughing at your postings. When was the last time someone handed you a mil? Ill bet you can go next door at get one too. sooooo sad your a disgrace to all honest Police who work hard every day so people like Erin and I Can walk along the roads if we chose without fear of an attack much less death. "
To Jeff: wrote on Mar 17, 2007 4:39 PM:
" Getting alittle hostile aren't we.
You are so funny, you cant prove one argument and you get angry, you went from Majority to millions, get real.
Trooper Norman was great officer his career has ended in a tragedy, so why are you getting so much pleasure in this on-line hatred you are showing towards him.
Yes there was a shooting, yes there was an investigation, yes Robin Greene was photographed at the scene laughing and having a"good time", yes she called a grand jury,( this is a political motive) yes she controlled who and what was interviewed. Now there will be a trial.
Jeff police officers are supporting Trooper Norman, like it or not,
he is a wonderful person, that had a great career, a family man, You are portraying him as a monster, he is not.
You don't want to have the Hamley's portrayed as they are responsible, but yet portraying an innocent man as this monster is ok???
Jeff am done trying to debate the facts with you, you can't debate facts you can't even stick to a situation or answer questions, you can't stick to Washington County, you are in NY, Las Vegas, New Orleans, the facts are here.
So have your little fun, enjoy yourself
the truth is your opinions don't matter
I have facts that is all that is important. I have no more time for you.
"
with all due respect wrote on Mar 17, 2007 4:54 PM:
" you haven't said any facts either. Both of you are playing the opinion game. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 5:10 PM:
" To Jeff You have been telling us for days how all this Pro Norman evidence has been withheld by the state and will pop up at Normans trial conducted by the state. I think this may be your biggest insult to the readers of the thread up to this point. Withholding evidence from the grand jury, prosecutor ect. carries a much stiffer penalty than Norman is facing. Get Real
Also your statement insinuating Robin was staging for political reasons has no merit as she was not running for political office
you have the fact sorry pal I cant call you the spinmaster because your spin is so far outside reality Ride your dead horse and god help the kids who are reading your posts Why do I not want to hear about the Hamleys? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT CHARGED WITH A CRIME
Norman Is the ONLY PERSON IN THIS CASE CHARGED WITH A CRIME( Funny you seem to think the state shoulf file charges against the party they just paid a mil too.That is too funny) When are you going to admit that simple fact to yourself Dont you hate lying to yourself
by you saying you were no longer posting due to me is a complment when the lid is shut on the box it is over have fun buddy "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 5:30 PM:
" This thread is about the state paying 1 mil to the hamleys isnt it?
There is no mention in the GJ report stating the hamleys were neglegent nor will you find that in any police report including Normans
Has Any one read any articles or heard mention on tV of the hamleys being charged criminaly or were responsible for the death of their son?
you are not only insulting the citizens of AR you are directly insulting the family a crime that is just about as Normans in the eyes of the poulation of NWA Norman does not have the support you claim even his ex employer the state bailed out on him and then turned around and charged him with a crime
And you want us to buy into you baloney "
Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 6:00 PM:
" Why is the STate Charging its ex employee Norman if they the state have all this secret evedence to exonerate their ex trooper? Ribin personally is not charging Norman with anything Normans Ex Employer The STATE Of Arkansas filed criminal charges against Norman "
Denise Allen wrote on Mar 17, 2007 6:45 PM:
" Looks like Bud doesn't need chemo. Excellent news. Anyhow, I'll be out of the loop until the day of Norman's trial. Ironically, I have jury duty that day on the 26th. Someone post and say what happened with the trial. "
to jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 8:22 PM:
" As you seem to have adequate free time since you spend so much of it bashing norman here is a suggestion that might make you arguments a little more credible. Go to a local department to be a part time II officer and take the training course which is relatively short. Then you might actually know something about which you speak. Spend a few nights working as a cop. "
To the earlier post To Jeff wrote on Mar 17, 2007 9:33 PM:
" I couldn't agree more, these post are out of hand and way out of line. Jeff doesn't ever present fact he continues to argue, that is his basis on this web-site, so I to agree with you I am a support of Trooper Norman, and have been a life long friend,
I will not be posting anymore either.
Thank you and God Bless the Norman family, and Bud Hamley. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 18, 2007 12:22 AM:
" The state is very much who is charging Norman read the charge sheet the venue is in BC because the crime took place in BC this is not a dwi or speeding ticket Prove me wrong!! I see another Pro Norman bit the dust as the lid has closed on them also Yes the state is the Party charging Norman every one but the pro normans who hate to admit they are grasping at straws problem is the straws are too short to hold onto anylonger "
Jeff wrote on Mar 18, 2007 12:33 AM:
" I have presented facts you just donot like the truth so you attempt to contine to hammer the messenger who does not agree with your baloney I went back and read many of the posts the Pto Normans in one post blamed the retreating officers as the cause for Norman shooting an unarmed man who was minding his own business simply walking down the side of a highyway they have blamed the family they have blamed everyone except the only person charged who is Norman they attempted to hijack the thread and turn it into a hamley caused the death vice the state paid a million to hamley for a terrible wrong commited by an ex state trooper named norman they are going to quit posting because they realize that there numbers are small and they have run out of funny excuses for a police officer who acted without engaging his brain and killed an innocent man with a gun he had no business carrying this mans mindset is not right for police duty and he proved it to the whole world "
Jeff wrote on Mar 18, 2007 1:07 AM:
" You pro Normans like to post state statues attempting to spin the crime away from Norman to the Hamleys
Please post the state statue that pertains to criminal neglegent homicide
It is not a county statue or a city statue Norman violated, it is a state statue thus the state charges by the very same folks who formerly paid the ex trooper his salary.
you have attacked not one but every poster who agrees with the majority of citizens in AR that Norman is the cause of death.you can deny all you want but the facts are very much against you and your friend Norman The grand jury did not report one good move Norman made because his mistakes are so numerous and fatal in this case.the mistakes made by norman dwarf any good thing Norman did other than respond to the call. Ill bet Norman is kicking himself every day for not following orders. If he had only followed orders he would not have been in a position to shoot hamley he would have been in the middle of the hwy working traffic and still on the state police payroll as it is he is now an ex cop soon to be a convicted ex cop all because he used his finger before he engaged his brain and killed of an inocent man. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 18, 2007 1:13 AM:
" to hey jeff, who is charging Norman with criminal neglegent homocide? "
Jeff wrote on Mar 18, 2007 11:37 AM:
" To Jeff Your post is so funny its sad. You said I am bashing Norman. Lets see the state of AR terminated Norman The state Of AR has Charged Norman with a crime,Criminal Negligent Homicide the grand jury had not one good action by Norman to report in its investigation Of Normasns actions leading up to and thru the shooting death
Norman is not the type of police officer we need on the streets as he cannot control his emotions and actions while carrying a weapon And You say I am Bashing the Man The man has taken a human life for no cause Why dont you hold up a picture of Hamely and Ledford together also I am positive the officers on the scene pryor to Normans arrival already knew without a doubt that Erin had a phyisical problem If Ledford had CP every law enforcement agency would have known also if Ledford had cp he would not have been able to commit the crimes he has been doing time for.
Bashing No, Bad Cop Yes. the proof is implicit and explicit after all it was the other officers who were on scene that cooked him I have enjoyed reading your posts I have been waiting for you to blame the killing on the manufacture of the projectile that killed Erin I am sure that is comming next as your straw man is used up "
amazed wrote on Mar 18, 2007 12:00 PM:
" I have just started reading these post and am totally amazed at the lack of intellegents by "Jeff", it would appear he is arguing with himself, and not to mention he has some serious issues with authority and law enforcement.
The one thing I agree with both families are hurting, I do agree that DHS should have if they are not, into neglect, and maybe they are the post did lead me to believe that. But the Norman family and some of the Hamley family is hurting, so my prayers are with you and hope you do not do anything rash, and out of anger,
"
Jeff wrote on Mar 18, 2007 1:04 PM:
" This thread carries the subject State Pays 1 mil To The Hamleys The Pro Normans Have taken the subject and attempted to turn it into the State is paying the wrong party because it is the Hamleys fault Erin is dead.I am amazed at the few posters like the above who cant comprehend Who Is being Charged with a Crime Norman and Norman Only. I am still waiting on a reply as to who,s testimony sunk Bad Cop Norman
The Pro Normans Know darn well it was the other POLICE Officers On Scene whose statements greatly contributed in getting a bad cop off the streets "
I am now amazed wrote on Mar 18, 2007 1:50 PM:
" that someone can just start reading these posts and come to the conclusion that Jeff was mostly argueing with himself. When most of the last few posts was Jeff responding to another poster pertaining to the thread. That is reading comprehension amazement. Oh well, I can be nieve and think that the one "amazed" was just an average Joe reading the thread, but I believe most of us all know better than that. "
really wrote on Mar 18, 2007 6:19 PM:
" So I guess if you make mistake a your job you are a bad person who is incompetent at what you do. It doesn't matter about all of the positive things you do because the mistakes that you make are the only thing that matters. Yes he killed that poor boy and I am sure he regrets it everyday. Why do you have to say he was a bad cop. you don't anything about his record prior to this incident. Did he screw up? absolutely. But there is a lot more to situations than meets the eye especially eyes that only see what they want to. This whole thing is a tragedy and I think people need to stop pointing the finger of blame. Yes I know you are just twitching as you read this to get typing about how horrible your target it is. Good for you, if it distracts you from whatever your shortcomings are, then enjoy. "
I guess that post is targeted to Jeff? wrote on Mar 18, 2007 7:23 PM:
" No one said that if you make a mistake you are a bad person who is incompetent at what you do. I think even Jeff's rants haven't even suggested that. Though I believe that Jeff has suggested that Mr. Norman was not the stellar police officer that many are making him out to be. That is his opinion...just as it would be the opinion of someone that suggests that Trooper Norman was an outstanding officer who just messed up that unfortunate day. Maybe Jeff has some inside information himself that he is not indulging us with, maybe Jeff doesn't. I don't know Mr. Norman nor the Family, so I will not attack his character, just attack his questionable actions. I do agree that Jeff's personal attacks on Mr. Norman are on that line of ok/not ok, but at least someone from the Pro-Norman side has come out and publicly said that he absolutely messed up. I thank your honesty for that! "
Jeff wrote on Mar 18, 2007 7:39 PM:
" Any body watch 60 Min tonight The subject involves our service men in Iraq who are being charged with murder by our Gov. for the shooting of innocent civilians This is a war and our fine men are being charged with murder due in a large part by certain legislaters in DC such as Murtha ect.
60 min was interviewing one soldier who made the statement "you better be sure of who you are shooting at"
Norman is getting off with a slap on the wrist for the crime he commited the boys in the real war will be in the brig for many years with no medical retirement Norman is a disgrace to all citizens of AR
Pro Normans I am waiting for your response as why the other officers present at the scene of Erins killing gave such damaging testimony and statements that directly contributed to Norman Being charged by the state for Criminal Negligent Homocide "
Jeff wrote on Mar 18, 2007 8:29 PM:
" To Really Your Statement "This whole thing is a tragedy and I think people need to stop pointing the finger of blame."
Hello!! Normans employer is the party charging him with a crime
I suggest you call the Attorney General of the State Of AR and Request that the state quit blaming Norman for killing Hamley. and with draw the charges. Your so funny and think the masses are so dumb He failed his employeer at work and his boss filed criminal charges against him, how hard is that for you to understand? his employeer or work as you call it just paid a million To Normans Victims family . be honest with yourself when you are trusted with a weapon and you take the oath to uphold the law, if you use your weapon in a malicious manor you must pay the price Norman is no different than any other citizen when you break the law you pay Be happy its only criminal negligent homicide it could and should have been an felony
"
To one who does not wrote on Mar 18, 2007 10:22 PM:
" want to be shot by a trigger happy glory seeking cop - Just stay in NWA and you won't have a thing to worry about, they don't exist in this area.
Your last statement was uncalled for, and very slanderous at best.
actually your entire post was ridiculous and very poor taste, not to mention lack of intellegence.
Could you explain that last statement, this is very troubling to me. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 19, 2007 1:31 AM:
" The Pro Normans are going to quit posting They have attempted to spin the blame to the Hamley family and proceded to call anyone who questioned Normans actions a cop hater and dont call 911 and couldnt walk a foot in a cops shoes and so on It is SO Simple to see The blanme culminating with a Criminal Negligent Homicide has been placed on Norman By Normans Ex employer the State Of Arkansas We are not Picking on Norman we are believing our grand jury, we are beleiving the legislature is passing law to allow a 1 Million Payment to the Hamleys we are believing The State is putting as much distance between itself and Norman this is proven by the fast agreement of payment before Normans trial We are believing the other officers at the scene when Erin was killed by Norman will be sitting on the prosecutions side. We are laughing at all the secret evidence that was withheld from the grand jury and state that will be made available after trial.We are laughing because you never slowded down and realized who is blaming Norman for Erins Death We are laughing at your perposterous statement that information will come out at trial that exonerates Norman We believe justice will be served and a bad cop will be packed away for good the healing process will start and police all around NWA can start rebuilding the trust thAT IS DEMANDED of them by thecitizensofNWA "
Jeff wrote on Mar 19, 2007 7:36 PM:
" To The Pro Normans There is a very big difference in the pain the norman family is suffering and the pain the hamley family is suffering
Normans family is suffering from what is called SELF INFLICTED PAIN Norman directly caused his family grief and embarresment
Hamely had no control over the pain Norman was inflicting upon him as he had commited no crime and was not wanted on any warrents Hamley was gunned down by a Norman who let is actions overcome his slow thinking brain
Now his Ex employeer is charging him with a crime for his actions that took an innocent life
we the people fully realize the pain suffered by both parties IS NOT one in the same "
Jeff wrote on Mar 20, 2007 8:23 AM:
" Facts hurt dont they? Norman Killed an unarmed innocent man, He was not a great officer as you claim or this needless killing would not have happened. Fact. Normans employeer has charged him with a serious crime. Fact. Our state does not pay victims 1 mil for the actions of a GREAT Officer Fact. The majority of all citizens agree with me 100%. Fact. We all want to travel freely in AR without threat of being gun downed by a state trooper who acts before he thinks. I need your forgiveness? (Ill Pass) How about the State Of AR they are the party who has said Norman is a Bad Cop canned him and charged him with a crime Your spin is not winning over any more sympathy you are turning more folks against you everyday The facts that you have been asking for sunk your ship just as Norman and Norman only sunk is career I suppose your going to ask God to bless the jury after Norman is convicted by the testimony of the other cops at the scene. Are you going to ask God to bless them also? I need your Forgivness for what? The ten commandment say Thou Shalt Not Kill Hopefully Norman is trying to make things right with God as Norman is the party in Need of Forgivness for the killing of an innocent man "
I guess wrote on Mar 20, 2007 9:26 AM:
" one man's tragedy is another man's soap box. Some people need to know when to let it go and you know who you are, everyone knows who you are. Time and the courts will settle this. Some people will agree some people won't. That is the nature of the system. Ultimately God makes the final decision about this and personally I think we should leave it up to him and stop pouring salt in the wounds of all of those involved. Opinions are not going to change the situation for the better, they only hurt those involved. If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all.Sadly I am sure there will be more negativity here this time tomorrow. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 20, 2007 9:53 AM:
" I guess Your statement ." Opinions are not going to change the situation for the better, they only hurt those involved" Sir There is a big difference between the difinition of fact and opinion Fact The State Of Ar Terminated Norman for Killing and Innocent unarmed Man. Fact The State Of AR Paid the Family of the Victim 1 million Before Trial thus helping it put as much distance between the agency and Norman as possible
Fact the State Of AR has Charged Norman with a Crime for the sensless killing of an unarmed man. Fact the Other Officers at the scene gave daming testimony and statements to the investigators and the grand jury. Fact we all want the ability to travel in AR without fear of being killed a bad cop Sorry these are not opinions they are fact your above post is more hot air
I suggest you contact you senators and reps in DC and tell them that the trial of our military bays in Iraq who are in a real war not Hwy 412 that they should not be tried for the shootings of unarmed citizens in Iraq yes they are being charged with murder Norman is getting a slap on the wrist for the same action in a place with no war zone
Get real your horse is dead and your spin is sickening to all who read "
I guess that was... wrote on Mar 20, 2007 4:46 PM:
" very well said. Anyone who has been reading this knows exactly who you are talking about. I am personally going to check into what actions, be it civil or criminal, may be taken against this person. Just wanted you to know there are several more who feel the same as you and I. "
Feb 26th wrote on Mar 20, 2007 4:58 PM:
" This is when this story broke and ever since Jeff has been entertaining himself, ranting and accusations and false statements. Wow, doesn't take much to entertain Jeff or amuse him.
Unfortunately it is at someone else's expense, others people have feelings and family and you really should think before you write such hateful comments.
Your opinion can be expressed without all the HATE.
You still must be a very angry individual. Makes one wonder what type of encounter Jeff has had that he is so quick to pass judgement and for over a month not let it go. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 12:01 AM:
" Yes I am very upset I had to travel the roads Norman petroled in his past career Anybody could have been Erin Tell us what Norman has done that makes him a good trooper As for the post above more threats for exposing the truth I cannot find anyone who even remotley think Norman was justified in shooting an unarmed man all of us have the right to travel freely with fear of death from those who have taken an oath to uphold the law Normans Negligent homocide charge is a much more serious charge in the eyes of the puplic than someone who hit a pedestrian in the wal mart X-ing and was facing the same charges. In Closing I have a question for the above poster Why has Normans Ex Employer The State Of Arkansas Filed Criminal Charges against a such an outstanding Extrooper?
Why has Normans Ex Exemployer The State of Arkansas Paid the Hamleys 1 Million
The Majority of tax payers in AR would much rather see our money go to other items that benefit all such as roads schools bridges ect.It would seem if Norman was the super trooper you telling us then the state should have give Norman some of the money as a bonus
As much as I Know you hate to admit the taxpayers are livid over this and Normans should be required to pay restitution moneys back to the state "
Jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 12:25 AM:
" Something else about this case causes very serious concern Why in the world are we the taxpayers rewarding Ex Trooper Norman with Medical Retirement? We Are Paying the Hamlleys 1 million and we are Paying Norman for many years to come. This is an insult to every taxpayer we need to contact out senators and congressman imediatly when a police officer is convicted he should not be rewarded with a steady flow of checks he must have all state,city, county,ect benefits cut off at time of conviction if police officer wins on appeal the back monies will be paid until this action takes place there is no real incentive to fly stright if I get cought I still get a ck? The current set up doe not promote slowing action down to the level of the brain thus causing more risk of danger, bodily harm or deat from cops who forget think first and act second the police must make sure there are no mistakes like the army boy said on 60 min last night there is no room for error that man was in a war this is in our oun State There Is No Margin For error period the public losses trust as we have happening here in NWA and that makes policing very much harder not good at all We must cut off benifits for convicted police contact you state legislature I am sure you will find them very much in agreement "
Jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 12:43 AM:
" I am not surprised your trying to scare someone who posts the true feelings of 99+ percent of the citzens of AR You have just threatened me with possible criminal chargesand a cival suit laughable I have posted fact and the facts are not favorable to your buddy Ex trooper Norman and you Hate it, just like we dislike bad cops. When someone decides decides TO PLAY JUDGE, JURY, AND EXICUTIONER THEY BETTER BE RIGHT NORMAN WAS WRONG "
Jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 12:52 AM:
" Your threats are hollow its this simple you have blamed the Hamleys, You have blamed Robin Green,You posted the Grand jury was rigged against Norman, You have blamed everyone but the person who owns the index finger that pulled the trigger Ex Trooper Norman. I have listened to your insults from day one and so has the majority of those who have been reading the posts The majority think just like I do why dont you ask? "
Jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 1:03 AM:
" The pro Normans are not going to win any friends with posts like the above from "I Guess That Was" advocating restricting the right to Freedom of Speach. You Guys are really grasping at straws. When are you going to Admit Normans ex employer The State is the party that says Norman commited a crime. We just happen to AGREE. Why is it easy to agree We Just had to fork up a mil for what? A Sensless, Useless Killing. "
Sad times wrote on Mar 21, 2007 8:31 AM:
" I find it interesting that the people who blindly support the police also seem to be in favor of a police state. "
to jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 10:01 AM:
" Nobody has any problem with free speech, everyone is sick of your rantings. Nearly every post on here is made by you. You have more than adequately exercised your right to free speech. Many people have died to protect your right to free speech.I would not insult there contribution to our society. If you would comprehend what you read instead of solely concentrating on what you are going to gripe about next you would probably find that your posts would have more legitimate content. The validity of your points (if any) is lost in the ridiculous manner in which you are so fond of attempting to articulate them. You would do your argument far more justice by presenting it like an adult and not like an adolescent throwing a temper tantrum.Oh and you really overuse the word spin and you should calm down before you respond so that your post is coherent enough that we can exercise our freedom to be amused by it. Have a nice day. "
oh to the above wrote on Mar 21, 2007 10:04 AM:
" please forgive any grammatical errors in the above post as reading so many posts that are full of them I am afraid that it has become contagious. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 11:59 AM:
" Every post from the pro normans has attempted to blame the crime on any and every one expect the real shooter Norman Every post has been spin and more spin Their posts are bad for law enforcement the issue is much more serious than the pro Normans wantus to believe I am still waiting for what Norman has done to be called a good cop by his supporters please dont tell us he has been keeping our highways safe as we know this is far from the truth "
Jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 12:26 PM:
" Hello Your statement everyone is sick of my ranting is false you ment to say the very few Pro Norman supporters hate the truth thus the attacks on the messanger
I read in the paper the State Troopers are going to step up DWI ck points with the targets being young drivers on school vacation I am glad Norman is off the streets less chance of a kid getting shot "
This is the question....... wrote on Mar 21, 2007 1:43 PM:
" "that needs to be answered. At the time of the fatal shot was there any reason for it to happen. It doesn't matter after the fact who the person was. None of this information was available at the time. If Hamley did something that could be construed as being threatening. Then how threatening was it: that is to say did it warrant lethal force. I don't know because I wasn't there. A jury will decide if lethal force was reasonable at the time, not what was learned later. This is a tragedy for all involved. I hope that people can learn from this so it doesn't ever happen again. If Larry Norman is found to have used lethal force without reason, he will be convicted. Unfortunately no one can answer what his thoughts were at the time of the shooting other than him. I know Larry personally and know what type of person he is. I know he would not have shot without reason in his mind. I don't know if he may have overreacted to the situation or if he saw something in Hamley's movements to lead him to believe lethal force was needed at the time. We all know that lethal force was not needed after all the facts came out. This is not meant to say Larry made the right decision, only he knows why it happened."
"
This is the question....... wrote on Mar 21, 2007 1:46 PM:
" con't....This is not meant to lay blame on Erin Hamley either. If he did not understand the commands or if he was just playing around no one knows. It is sad to think that life and death decisions are made in split second. I can tell you one thing with certainty, Larry would never had wanted to hurt an innocent person, but that is exactly what happened. It would be wonderful if officer's knew who they were dealing with at all times, but unfortunately this is not the case. Sometimes they deal with not so good people. I hope they never get the attitude that it is us against them. We can second guess forever and never understand why this happened. I only hope there are lessons learned, even though I don't know what they will be. I have read enough blame and hate on this site. If you have comments why not try to be constructive instead of attacking each other." "
disappointed wrote on Mar 21, 2007 7:46 PM:
" some cops pulled a man out of a burning car today, what do you cop haters have to say to that? God bless cops... "
Jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 8:05 PM:
" The problem of the us against them attitude by the police exists today and is very common. The main cause of the problem is the large influx of ex military young men into easy to get job openings at Pds all over the country. These young men fresh in from war ect. do not have the proper mentality for police work military men are trained to kill and police are trained to keep the peace . somewhere the thinking that we need to militerize our police depts came into being this is the main cause for the rash recent litigation involving police shootings all over the country including our ouwn back yard
There is no margin for error a policeman must be able to make the right decision ALL THE TIME That is one of the pearals of being a police officer. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 8:14 PM:
" We are not cop haters we are for the right to live and travel safely in NWA with out fear of getting shot by mistake
by a policeman who didnt think before he acted. Good Cops are a great aset to the citizens although they are getting harder and harder to come by. this is evidenced by the recent spike in litigation against police depts all over the country including the FBI "
show me the proof wrote on Mar 21, 2007 8:23 PM:
" You have allegations once again.Show me the proof to back up this statement that our police officers are from the military and that again has nothing to do with anything. But you do NOT have access to personell records GET OVER yourself and stop because so sarcastic.
This report is over a year old, and yet you still will not stop your ranting, and false allegations,
Would you just let the trial happen and go your way and let this have time to heal.
This isn't going to go away, whether you feel the need to be ugly to all police officers or not, and you are
So just once, just once back this statment up with proof, you haven't been able to proof any of your previous allegations, so please enlighten me how do you have access to the personel files of the police officers? "
For disappointed wrote on Mar 21, 2007 8:34 PM:
" I don't know what story you are talking about with the policeman saving the burning car person, but here is a doozy from Chicago.
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=2725581&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1 "
Jeff wrote on Mar 21, 2007 9:17 PM:
" Show me proof, Ill bet your about to aphixiate yourself your head is so deep in the sand. Here is a fact for you to digest. Normans Ex Employer The State Of Arkansas has charged Norman with a crime!! Have a nice day "
Jeff.........No one wrote on Mar 21, 2007 9:43 PM:
" disputes the fact that Norman has been charged. It's all the other ranting yu have been doing about poor training, poor hiring practices and the saying you saying that all ex-military make poor police officers. Where is your proof of those statements? It doesn't even have to be beyond a reasonable doubt, people would except beyond a preponderance of the evidence. Jeff that means all you have to show is 51% of all officers have poor training, 51% of all departments have poor hiring practices and 51% of all ex-military hired as olice officers are bad. If you can do that people might start believing what you have to say. So come on Jeff, give us the proof to what you say. "
did ya ever think wrote on Mar 21, 2007 10:36 PM:
" that people can disagree with the action Norman took and still think he is a human being. He is a human being who will have to live with the choice he made. This incident does not mean our children are going to be randomly shot at by trigger happy police officers and the implication is assanine. Our kids are in more danger of being shot at by other kids (gang members). If you read the other articles and not just about the Norman incident you would know that. You would also read what an excellant job our officers are doing in general.If you don't believe our officers are adequately trained or even our military boys, who are protecting your precious freedom of speech, are good enough then pack you bags and get out. These are men who go above and beyond to protect our community and way of life. Whether you like it or not they are not super human and some error will exist because the last I checked GOD is the only infallable being. So get of your Zero margin for error crap. BLESS OUR OFFICERS&MILITARY "
To this is the question wrote on Mar 21, 2007 10:48 PM:
" Thank you so much for trying to help people understand I agree with you 100%
Unfortunately there seems to be nothing you, me or anyone else can do or say to change the hatefilled garbage that goes on here. I know I have tried. I am so sorry for these families and I so hope that they don't read the stuff that is on here. I pray that everyone involved can heal. The mean things said on here really makes me hurt for the Normans and the Hamleys. I pray for them everyday. "
Jeff wrote on Mar 22, 2007 4:34 AM:
" Your blowing so much smoke I have not written 1 negative post re our military more spin. I have posted our police gorces are being militarized this is fact.Your heads are so far up the sand that you chose not to admit the truth Sorry but there is no room for error as you inmply ask the boys being charged with murder for what are gov call accidental killings of civilians in Iraq I am 100 behind the young men in Iraq and all over the world .You are so nieve you dont really what happens when military and police are mixed two different missions the goal of the military is to kill and the goal of the police is to keep the peace without anyone getting hurt. If you dont believe me ask Norman how much room there is for error when your holding a loaded gun and wearing a badge There is no Room for error when you have a badge and a gun and you are vested with the safety and welfare of the general public. "
To everyone wrote on Mar 22, 2007 4:44 AM:
" As you can see time and time again Jeff has been asked to prove his allegations, and these aren't opinions, these are strong allegations against the police officers, and time and time again, he doesn't because he CAN'T, he is using this web site to rant. You can look at other articles involving officers he is ranting on that article as well. One example of what these men and women face daily on a routine traffic stop. was in Missouri, where two officers were shot.
Nothing is ever routine and they can not forget that. All Jeff is doing is trying to convence the public of their wrong doing,"they are all monsters" in Jeff opinion ,just read his post. This is about Trooper Norman and a very sad day,that ended his career,and changed his life forever. It is a about a handicapped young man, that could not communicate with the officers, he lost his life on that fatal day. Fault, will be determined at the TRIAL not HERE on this web site
I support Trooper Norman, and pray for the Hamley family, they both suffered greatly. No one can determine which family "lost" the most, or is suffering more, None of us were there
and should stop passing judgment.
The trial will bring to light things no one has seen or heard about.
So wait until the TRIAL and see the what the JURY decides.
Even Jeff can't argue with the outcome,
"
Jeff makes me laugh wrote on Mar 22, 2007 5:03 AM:
" Thank you for such enjoyment, laughter is good for your health and Jeff you have provided much laughter through out your posts To ridiculous to be taken seriously so these must be to make all of us laugh, he again can NOT and WILL not answer any question with proof of his allegations, and he continues to rant. I just wish he would learn to spell. "
Again opinions are wrote on Mar 22, 2007 6:17 AM:
" fine, but accusations that are not factual are the problem with Jeff's post, they are opinion that he is saying are facts, he says 100% of the people agree with him, well he is wrong, I don't agree with any and therefore I have just proven that "fact" incorrect. He states police officers come from military background, he does not have that CONFIDENTIAL information, that would be in the employees CONFIDENTIAL personel files,
So Jeff use your opinion and it is only your opinion. NOT FACTS not now never has been "
Jeff wrote on Mar 22, 2007 8:36 AM:
" You keep asking for facts and when posted you try to spen them off as opinion I suggest you do some studying I never said all police officers come from a military background as you insinuate in the above post a very large percent of new officers are very much from a military background yes I am sure that the majority of the the people would not want their kids or themselves shot by a trigger happy cop
Is it a fact the state has filed criminal charges against Norman?
Is it fact the state has agreed to pay the hamleys 1 mil?
Is it a fact that Ar does not have a lottery in place at this time?
Is it a fact Norman pulled the trigger killing an unarmed man?
Is it a fact this action took place on a highway ? Good Day "
jim wrote on Mar 22, 2007 10:33 AM:
" Sounds to me like Jeff has nothing better to do than arguing over who is at fault. It's a tragedy for everyone. "
to jeff wrote on Mar 22, 2007 11:05 AM:
" What does whether or not arkansas has a lottery have to do with any of the previous topics? Because if you are comparing the Hamleys losing their son and getting a million dollar settlement to winning the lottery then you are a hopeless excuse for a human being. Nothing you say is credible, it all anger fueled, often incoherently worded mispelled garbage. You have more than made your point and before you stick your foot any further in your mouth, let it go. Saying something over and over again does not make it agreeable or factual. Learn some compassion for other human beings. I understand your outrage at this, but it simply was not what you are trying to turn it into. You could use your energy to make a difference instead of sitting at your computer adding hate to the world that is already full of it. You don't care about what you can do to help.You only care about convincing others you are right. But to what good? How is your opinion going to save a life? Your words are only hurting people if they even care what you say in the first place. "
TO Jeff wrote on Mar 23, 2007 4:37 AM:
" This isn't about YOU, remember, this is about the shooting on hwy 412.
You need to re-read your post. You are so angry that you aren't sure what you are writing. All the responses have been to your posting allegations, we just want to know how you have proof of those allegations and you did compare the lottery to the million, re-read your post. Looks like your 100% is getting smaller (oops is never was there ) "
lets stop wrote on Mar 23, 2007 8:08 AM:
" lets stop humoring him, he is the only posting except for people who disagree with him. When we stop responding to his nonsense maybe he will get bored and stop writing it. If he means something different than he is posting maybe he will at least take time to read it before he posts it, if he isn't mad at everyone else. Please everyone help stop his nonsense by posting on another topic and leave this one alone we have already read all we need to here. Wait until the courts decide before further postings and all work together to cut down on the hate for the benefit of all involved. Thank you for you kind consideration on this matter. Yeah Jeff we know.You have the right to remain silent just not the ability so we are having an intervention on your behalf. good luck. "
angie Collins wrote on Mar 26, 2007 5:07 PM:
" Bud...I wish I could get a hold of you so I could give you and your momma a hug. I know the pain you all must be going through. You helped me so much at the schools and your siblings were so sweet and i think it is AWESOME that your mom may get a little money though i know it will NEVER take away the pain and sorrow you all have felt! Thank you for your service in Iraq and lots of prayers for you and your family!!!!
My son also served in Iraq and is now trying to be a police officer which makes it really difficult . I pray for him that he makes the right decisions when trying to serve and protect. Love you Bud "
John Smith wrote on Mar 30, 2007 11:25 PM:
" The sad fact of the matter is that any of us can be killed by police people who have done nothing it's matters not the police are never held accountable for there actions just something to think about next time you're pulled over for a routine traffic stop "
Not already registered?
Larry wrote on Feb 26, 2007 9:46 PM: