Immigration Memorandums In Hand
Last updated Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:12 PM CDT in News
By John Henley Jr.
THE MORNING NEWS
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ROGERS -- The city will not become a sanctuary city for illegal immigrants, pledged Mayor Steve Womack during a Wednesday news conference to announce the receipt of a "long-awaited and much-anticipated" agreement from federal officials.
Rogers officials received on Tuesday a signed memorandum of agreement from the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement 287(g) program.
The memorandum empowers six Rogers police officers who received 287(g) training earlier this month to perform immigration enforcement functions.
Three other Northwest Arkansas law enforcement agencies received signed memorandums on Tuesday: Springdale Police Department, and the Benton and Washington counties' sheriff's offices.
The four agencies involved are part of a 287(g) regional task force model, which is different from the standard field model or detention model. Rogers Police initially applied to be a field model program, while the other agencies all applied to be detention models.
The task force model was a byproduct of displacement fears, Womack said, adding although Rogers would participate in the regional task force, the memorandum was specific to Rogers and the task force would not get in the way of Rogers police from enforcing immigration law.
Womack addressed fears the 287(g) authority would be used to racially profile and has previously said any officer found to be abusing the 287(g) authority would be fired.
Steve Helms, Rogers Police chief, also tried to allay fears of racial profiling by officers.
You will not see units on the street going from door to door, business to business, Helms said.
However, not everyone was satisfied with those assurances.
"It is a very sad thing they approved the 287(g) in Rogers because it is going to allow the police to racially profile the Hispanic community," Hilda Gomez, president of the League of United Latin American Citizens' local council.
"We are open to take any complaints and will be in contact with the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, our attorney, and we will be reporting any incident to MALDEF," Gomez said.
A class-action federal lawsuit was filed in 2001 by the legal fund on behalf of Hispanics who felt they were contacted by Rogers police officers based on their ethnicity. The two sides reached a settlement agreement to end the lawsuit in 2003.
As part of the settlement, the city did not admit wrongdoing and agreed to take steps to ensure the fair treatment of Hispanics, and the legal fund agreed to drop all claims for monetary damages.
"We feel that this could potentially violate the spirit of the settlement agreement," said Elise Short, the legal fund's regional counsel with in the Atlanta office.
This type of agreement -- 287(g) -- divides and discourages the community from reporting crimes because it creates feelings of hostility between the community and local law enforcement officials, whose function is to protect and serve, Short said.
City Attorney Ben Lipscomb has maintained Rogers' participation in the program does not violate the agreement.
Lipscomb pointed out his office's efforts to be as open and honest as possible with the public and media, even though such efforts have put him at loggerheads with Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials. Lipscomb said that level of transparency will continue.
Helms said the police department has a complaint line that anyone can call anonymously.
All complaints regarding 287(g) operations will be forwarded for review to Immigration officials for review, according to the memorandum.
Washington County Sheriff Tim Helder and County Judge Jerry Hunton signed the Washington County Sheriff's Office memorandum of agreement on Wednesday. The four Washington County deputies participating in the 287 (g) program will begin enforcing immigration laws immediately, said Chief Deputy Jay Cantrell.
Benton County Sheriff Keith Ferguson said he was in receipt of the memorandum for his agency and was reviewing it. Ferguson said he expected to sign the agreement after review.
Springdale Police Chief Kathy O'Kelley acknowledged receipt of the memorandum, but would not comment further. A copy released to The Morning News by the officials with the Springdale department, showed O'Kelley and Springdale Mayor Jerry Van Hoose signed the agreement.
The Morning News' Pablo Bello and Christopher Spencer contributed to this report.
AT A GLANCE
Who Are Citizens?
People born in U.S. Territories, such as Puerto Rico, Saipan, American Samoa, and the Mariana, Marshall and Virgin Islands are granted U.S. citizenship at birth and are not defined as immigrants. A person born on a foreign vessel in a U.S. port or sailing in the territorial waters of the United States acquire U.S. citizenship at birth, as do those born on a plane in the United States or flying over its territory.
Source: Staff Report
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Reader Comments (80 comment(s))
The following comments are provided by readers and are the sole responsibility of their authors. The Morning News does not review comments before their publication, nor do we guarantee their accuracy. By publishing a comment here you agree to abide by our comment policy. If you see a comment that violates our policy, please notify the web editor.
Madison wrote on Sep 27, 2007 8:19 AM:
" jtd498,I believe they mean business,but there will probable be trouble with some claiming racial profiling. "
lifelongcitizen wrote on Sep 27, 2007 8:30 AM:
" You go Mayor Womack! Ms. O'Kelley, please follow suite. Legal Springdale residents are sick of the illegal situation. "
gary wrote on Sep 27, 2007 8:31 AM:
" Ms. Short, the job of the police is to "ENFORCE THE LAWS OF THE LAND", right or wrong, not to "Protect and Serve". This saying came from the Califorina law enforcements writing on the vehicles they drive. To me this is your rouse to be deceptive. I hope the police will be diligiant in doing their job correctly and equal. "
Riptide wrote on Sep 27, 2007 9:01 AM:
" Why is it always have to be the cops fault that people don't report crime. People like Jim Miranda turn a ligitimate enforcement act into a race issue. Miranda never even attempts to hear the other side of the story before claiming racial profiling. I am curious what he will say abot this. Wait, I already know what he will say. "Cops are racist and minorities should be able to break the law and blame police for not protecting them. It's about enforcing the law. You can't please everybody when doing it especially the criminals. If you ask me, Miranda is the definition of racism. "
sodapop wrote on Sep 27, 2007 9:04 AM:
" Gary--So you are saying that if the Police "protect and serve" it should be the state and not the citizen. "
Mrs. Kitty Meow Meow wrote on Sep 27, 2007 9:21 AM:
" I hope this doesn't have a negative effect on other NWA communities that don't have ICE trained law enforcement. Like a light on cockroaches, those communities could be infested. "
usterluvrogers wrote on Sep 27, 2007 9:23 AM:
" AT LAST! Hopefully our mayor will go forward and follow through so that Rogers will not be a catch-all for illegals. I still blame some of the larger corporations for bringing them over in the first place. If they really want cheap labor, then they should take their business to Mexico. We should have nipped this in the bud several years ago, but at least Womack is trying to do something now. "
scoot wrote on Sep 27, 2007 9:42 AM:
" GOMEZ needs to get one thing straight in her head. American citizens are not going to tollerate illegal criminals. They are in fact criminals breaking our laws. "
masonstorm1958 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 9:46 AM:
" I give it a month and LULAC will be bringing a class action lawsuit on behalf of its citizens against the city. Anytime the authorities show the slightest bit of resistance they get slapped with lawsuits by representatives of the illegals. It has been my observation that these enemies of our country will use every available means they have to further facillitate their invasion. You ever notice how if you object to their incursions, that they call you a racist? That's a misnomer. The Hispanic people are made up of seveal different races. Not just one. They are an ethnic group, not a race. But hey, I am getting away from the subject at hand. I am sure, if this program stays intact, it will have a damaging effect on the illegal population here. I hope so. What with the states surounding us passing stringent anti illegration laws, we will see in the short term an influx of more illegals fleeing these states. With half of the Hispanic population in this state already being illegal, we really don't need anymore. If anything we need to take further concrete steps to combat the growing invasion in our neck of the woods. To start with we need to pass laws similar to ones in the states around us. If we can deny them housing, jobs and access to public services, we will put a huge dent in their motivation to be here. The battle over our country is just beginning. "
amazed wrote on Sep 27, 2007 10:07 AM:
" What is the does Webster's say about the world -- illegal -- not legal, not right, wrong, against the law. If they are illegal, they need to go back and if the federal government and / or the state government can't and won't do anything, someone does, so why not the city. This is our community and we all are suppose to obey the laws that are set forth and if we don't we get in trouble and pay the price. The illegals are wrong so they need to pay the price and the sooner the better "
international traveler wrote on Sep 27, 2007 10:26 AM:
" This is a great an monumential step. LULAC and MALDEF are fighting this with every effort they can. Ever ask your self why? Where does their money come from? Seriously...Who funds these organizations? Let's follow the money trails back, just like we do American Tax Payers when they contribute to Presidential coffers. these organizations are fighting this because it makes them HAVE to deal with the problem, and exposes their groups as Frauds if they cant perform. Also, the influx of Illegals to NWA will obviously contribute to the rise in Cases that these groups will have to fund and handle. Since they are on a budget from their "sources" they will have to ask for more, and that is bad. These groups are just as corrupt as the Mexico Government.
And for those that think tey can just run and hide in other Benton County towns, think twice, the Benton County Deputies will be on duty to handle that. While it is not the best solution, it is a solution, and a very large step in the right direction!!! "
lil-ol-me wrote on Sep 27, 2007 10:38 AM:
" Gomez needs to take herself, along with all the other unwanted mexicans, back to mexico and see how well her ideas go over there. You people aren't even wanted in your own country!!!! "
Madison wrote on Sep 27, 2007 10:55 AM:
" international traveler,I just hope they don't deside to run an hide here in Booger county.LOL "
DrColes wrote on Sep 27, 2007 11:02 AM:
" 80% of the American people want an end to anarchy!
Illegal workers are criminals, those who hire them are criminals and those who aid-and-abet them are criminals.
Illegal aliens in America have NO rights. We are required by law to arrest and prosecute, deport them.
See http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl Know whom you are voting for. "
Tspud wrote on Sep 27, 2007 11:12 AM:
" How many more have come into the area since the 2001 class-action federal lawsuit? Since they continue to flood into the area, it's our fault for trying to enforce the law. It's a twisted logic! It's so easy to throw the race card as a threat and the criminals are the ones doing it. "
gary wrote on Sep 27, 2007 11:53 AM:
" Sodapop, I don't understand where you came up with your statement, but what I said is "The police are to enforce the laws". I think you need to read my first statement carefully so you will understand it what I was referring to. "
Opinion 101 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 12:08 PM:
" usterluvrogers, Your are right on with your statement. I could not have said it better myself. "
Madison wrote on Sep 27, 2007 12:45 PM:
" It's a good thing that we are finally getting some laws to inforce illegal immigration laws.
Illegal immigrants moving out
Published by The Watchdog September 27th, 2007 in Law enforcement.
USA Today
Illegal immigrants living in states and cities that have adopted strict immigration policies are packing up and moving back to their home countries or to neighboring states.
The exodus has been fueled by a wave of laws targeting illegal immigrants in Oklahoma, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia and elsewhere. Many were passed after congressional efforts to overhaul the immigration system collapsed in June.
"
SemperHog wrote on Sep 27, 2007 12:58 PM:
" It always seems to me that the ones that scream racism are the ones that are usually racist. FACT: Legal immigration is just that legal. FACT: Illegal immigration is just that illegal. No shades of grey just truth. Please don't come to this country and try to make it like the place you left. As imperfect as it may be it is ours and we will defend it. "
Weenie wrote on Sep 27, 2007 1:37 PM:
" OK! Springdale, it's time to quit dragging your feet on this issue!!!!! "
scoot wrote on Sep 27, 2007 2:54 PM:
" Bravo Oklahoma:--Oklahoma no longer OK for Illegal Aliens--- Oklahoma's Governor Brad Henry has signed a sweeping immigration Reform bill: Terrill -- State Representative Randy Terrill, says the bill has four main topical areas: it deals with identity theft; it terminates public assistance benefits to illegal; it empowers state and local police to enforce federal immigration laws; and it punishes employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens.--"I would remind people that states are separate sovereigns in our federal system," Terrill --
"Anyone who doesn't understand that needs to go back and take an American federal government class in college," he says.
"
Crod wrote on Sep 27, 2007 3:30 PM:
" To Tspud...
It is super easy to throw the race card at you in particular because of what comes out of your mouth, in all honesty I think you're prob in denial about being racist...still. Now don't get me wrong by no means do I support illegal immigration, however what I do not support is bashing an entire race simply bc of your strong feelings about immigration. Again... stick to the subject and you will sound a lot smarter and knowledgable. Don't assume we are all the same as I presume your family is not full of overall wearing barefooot and pregnant tobacco chewing w/ 7 kids on the hip individuals.... "
jq91167 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 4:08 PM:
" My family came here from Mexico several generations ago...legally.
My grandparents were BORN in this country and I still get ugly looks from Anglos like I don't belong here. So yes, I worry that racists will take advantage of the immigration issue.
Please direct some of your hate to the people who USE illegal immigrants for cheap labor. It seems no one wants illegals here, but they're more than happy to take advantage of what they have to offer.
I guess the time is coming when all illegals will be sent back to their home countries and local Anglos will line up at 5 a.m. to be picked up by local contractors to build homes or by farmers to pick produce for a few dollars an hour.
No worries. I'll be sure and keep my eye out for your cheap labor when I need the pool cleaned or my lawn cut.
"
keeparkansaslegal wrote on Sep 27, 2007 4:32 PM:
" jq91167- You see what you want to see. I'm half hispanic and have been confused with being middle eastern and italian as well as hispanic. Unlike you, I don't walk around with a racial chip on my shoulder. You look like a hateful person so that's the reaction you get.
Illegals are 4.4% of the US workforce so don't act like illegals run this country. "
Semperhog wrote on Sep 27, 2007 4:32 PM:
" jq91167, I don't have any hate to any illegal immigrant that is here. The only people I can't stand are racists of any race but I don't even hate them. Yes there should be some tough punishments for people who hire illegal labor. Here is something you should consider, why do you think Anglos as you call us look at you funny? Is it your actions? Is it that there are Millions of illegal Latinos in this country? Is it just an ignorant person? Are you just assuming it is a funny look? As long as there is an us against them mentallity in the Latin community there will be a problem for everyone. All citizens should be wanting illegals out. I am willing to live without cheap labor and give it a try. A lot of the reason the wages are so low is because illegals can not complain or they get abused or turned in by bad employers. Somebody will always step up and do a job. The employers will just have to pay a legal living wage. I proud that you are a U.S. Citizen. I am proud that we all care enough to complain one way or the other. We have a huge problem in this country with illegal workers, it needs fixed. Think about it. God Bless you my friend. "
jq91167 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 4:51 PM:
" Keeparkansaslegal - Chip on my shoulder? Definitely! Hateful? Not hardly. I'm the guy that holds the door for ANYONE....says Please and Thank You and so on and so on. I'm very respectful..in private and public. And I strongly believe illegals perform jobs legals aren't willing to do, but I also respect your point of view.
Semperhog - Valid points. I'm sure there are times when I think someone's look is something it is not. Just like at times it is and it's coming from an ignorant racist. Agreed that this problem is huge and needs to be fixed. "
BCR wrote on Sep 27, 2007 4:57 PM:
" Sometimes I wonder who is creating the race issue in America. Every time I hear the "race issue" being talked about, it's by people of color. Any "anglo" with racist opinions is in a minority. We're Americans, and come from a variety of ethnic backgrounds. To me, anyone who blames race for their problems is trying to shift blame for their own inadequacies, and general lack if intelligence. "
Semperhog wrote on Sep 27, 2007 5:00 PM:
" I agree that illegals do jobs that others won't do for the same wage. Illegals get hurt and they drive down wages, not meaning to no doubt, but employers take advantage of them. It is a cycle that needs to be broken. Sadly there are a lot of ignorant racists out there on both sides. "
jq91167 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 5:39 PM:
" First: "Anglo" is not meant in a derogatory way...at all.
It's extremely easy to say blaming race is a way to shift blame from one's own inadequacies.
I'm not blaming any problems I might have on race. I live a wonderful life.
That doesn't mean I can't voice my concern over racism.
Remember, not long ago there were signs at some public places stating "No dogs or Mexicans allowed" and people of color were not allowed to enter where whites could. The playing field has never been level, so please try to keep that in mind. I don't think ALL Anglos are racists, but unfortunately I've met many. "
scoot wrote on Sep 27, 2007 5:50 PM:
" Semperhog: You nailed it, "As long as there is an us against them mentallity in the Latin community there will be a problem for everyone". There lies the problem, there are those ( many of illegals ) who seem to think they will come over here and take over. WRONG ATTITUDE on their part...... "
justanobserver wrote on Sep 27, 2007 5:51 PM:
" I am fully behind ridding our country of illegal immigrants...and it has nothing to do with race. It's about doing what is right. I don't care if you are from Mexico, Russia, France, China...you name it...if you want to come here, do it the right way! Pay your dues and show that you WANT to be an AMERICAN!! For those stupid groups that keep crying RACISM...get a clue! If these people were doing the RIGHT THING from the start, they wouldn't be worried about it at all! In fact, they would be FOR it because they worked hard to get here. As an immigrant, I would resent those people who are sneaking in, using fake ids... "
3744 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 6:16 PM:
" Ms. Gomez; It is not racial profiling to want to know who is in this country illegally, nor is it racist to want illegal aliens deported, these people have no respect for our laws or our country and we do not want them here. This is a nation founded on laws, most American Citizens obey them: we have drivers licenses, we pay car insurance, homeowners insurance, health insurance...we don't expect to go to the emergency room and get our health care for free, we don't steal other peoples identity. That is why this is a great nation, why we have the freedoms we do, why everyone wants to come here. We have enough of our own criminals, we don't need to import any more. Any police officer is welcome to stop me and ask for proof of citizenship, it will not bother me in the least. I hope they do, I will know they are doing their job, and people like you will not be able to scream "racial profiling". "
3744 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 6:43 PM:
" To make it short and sweet, if you don't like the laws of this country and do not want to obey them...GO HOME. "
wildchild wrote on Sep 27, 2007 7:23 PM:
" Whoa. I saw this happening a long time ago. We get tired, we enforce laws, race card gets played, as with any uprising to protect US citizens, somone gets offended and it is most likely the ones that are guilty. I don't mind families that are here to better themselves who do it right. If you are gonna stay, do it right or face reality, the jigs up. America got tired and we have spoken. "
scoot wrote on Sep 27, 2007 7:51 PM:
" Sammy are you saying we shouldn`t ask for someones ID even though that has always been in effect. Upholding freedom is a civil society which upholds the law in equal manners to all. The current condition is not equall, Americans live by the rule while adversaries want to supress our laws specifically for illegals. "
3744 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 7:57 PM:
" sammysmith; the only way to find out if someone is here illegally is to ask for I.D., I don't feel my rights are being violated because I have to show my I.D. to a Police Officer, when I vote, etc... there are a lot of instances where asking for I.D. is necessary...when buying alcohol...cigarettes. Since our government will not secure our borders, I see no other way to control who is in this country...do you? "
3744 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 8:03 PM:
" I wish you would quit comparing us to Nazi Germany, we are not putting illegal aliens on trains and sending them to camps to be gassed, get real. The worst thing that can happen to them, as long as they have committed no other crimes, it that they get a free ride home. "
3744 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 8:15 PM:
" sammysmith; I have to have a drivers license, car insurance, health insurance...etc. Why should they be above the laws that the rest of us have to obey? If I get stopped and don't have insurance, it's a $500 fine, if I go to the Doctor, I get a thing called a BILL in the mail and I have to pay it or they call a collection agency on me. We have laws in order to keep this a civilized society, when one group of people are not required to obey them everything starts breaking down. "
Madison wrote on Sep 28, 2007 3:59 PM:
" Non Ya,I believe Jesus would tell these illegal aliens not to be breaking the laws of this country,and to work to make their own countries better. "
masonstorm1958 wrote on Sep 28, 2007 7:32 PM:
" Sammismith: Most of what you have said about Nazi Germany is A. Inaccurate B. Misleading C. Fabricated tosuit your rebuttals and comments. How do I know this? My Grandparents immigrated from there in 1939. The same year WWII started. My people fled their own homeland to get away from tyranny. My Mother was born in Iowa in 1941. I am second generation American. I really resent the fact that you act like you have a monopoly of knowledge regarding Nazism. Unless you have kinfolk from their and grew up hearing the horror stories of your ancestral homeland, then you do not know what you speak of. America does not even begin to compare to the Third Reich. I have sat back and read your comments long enough without saying something about it. NO MORE! I will take every opportunity when compare our country to them and slam you for it. I personally resent you misrepresenting the facts to further your own agenda. I will here and now ask the Censors to remove your comments anytime you refer to Nazism. Read some books and learn the history of The Nationalist Social Party before you open that thing you call a mouth. "
Deacon wrote on Sep 28, 2007 9:37 PM:
" masonstorm1958.......Well Said ! ! ! !
I have also read sammysmith's rantings and I have come to the conclusion that he makes his posts trying to impress others, but only impresses himself by seeing his words in print! So Sad........ "
manyhats wrote on Sep 30, 2007 12:04 PM:
" 3477 said, "" I wish you would quit comparing us to Nazi Germany, we are not putting illegal aliens on trains and sending them to camps to be gassed, get real. The worst thing that can happen to them, as long as they have committed no other crimes, it that they get a free ride home. "
This is not necessarily true. Many languish away in prison for several months. There are facilities in Texas for example, where even children under 12 are forced to wear prison garb and are often kept in 23 hour lockdowns. Medical attention is scarce and in some facilities, such as the Hutto facility in Tyler, Tx. they are locked in nearly windowless hothouses.
Under NAFTA, a trade agreement conceptualized and brokered by the United States, millions of Mexican farmers had their lands sold right out from under them to the highest bidders, namely, U.S. and multinational corporations, which in turn, pay the former residents, slave-labor wages.
Additionally nearly half of all corn grown in Mexico is now being taken out of food production and instead, is being shipped here for use as bio-diesel, thus doubling the price of Mexico's staple food, and you have a disenfranchised population down there. We interfer in their country, then call them criminals when they come here in order to feed themselves. All I want to know is, how much longer before you force these people to wear a star on their jackets? "
sittin'duck wrote on Sep 30, 2007 1:38 PM:
" manyhats,you're just another whining liberal.We don't owe these illegals nothing but a trip back where they come from. "
manyhats wrote on Sep 30, 2007 2:58 PM:
" Sittin' Duck said, "" manyhats,you're just another whining liberal.We don't owe these illegals nothing but a trip back where they come from."
Answer, yes you do. You owe them the same dignity and understand that you would give to any human being.
Also, isn't it interesting think that as soon as you so-called conservatives get challenged with the facts that so many of you resort to name calling. How typical! "
Deacon wrote on Sep 30, 2007 3:15 PM:
" Manyhats......NAFTA was agreed upon by mexico and Canada as well. If I entered into a country illegally, for whatever reason, and children of mine were 'forced' to wear prison garb in a windowless hothouses for up to 23 hours a day and didn't recieve free medical and they sold my land that I obtained with false documents, I would get out of that country as soon as I could. Then I would grow enough corn at home so that my family could feed on for a year (along with other things) and sell the remaining crops to supplement my income with other forms of means. "
manyhats wrote on Sep 30, 2007 8:06 PM:
" Deacon, you are correct in saying that NAFTA was agreed to by Mexico and Canada. The problem is that this trade agreement was negotiated in secret, as is the new Security and Prosperity Partnership. Are you aware that many of the negotiations for this SPP were likely finalized in Canada this summer. A treaty is supposed to be approved by Congress. Yet, it was Mexico's Felipe Calderón, Canada's Stephen Harper, and George Bush who conducted the negotiations. This new North American Union will never come before Congress. It was negotiated in secret without the consent of the governed. That's the way it usually works in Mexico. A few wealthy politicians go along with these agreements because there are financial incentives for them. The rest of the people suffer. They generally do not consent to these secret deals because they fully understand the outcome. Are you REALLY hungry Deacon? Are you watching your children (if you have any) go hungry with hardly nothing to eat? If not, you cannot really say what you would do in such a situation. I know this: If I and my family were hungry, and the great country to the north had taken away my self-sufficiency, I wouldn't give crossing the border in order to eat a second thought. Unfortunately, very few U.S. citizens understand the conditions that have driven so many people northward. Instead, our politicians and corporations victimize people in their own country, then we call them criminals here. "
Madison wrote on Oct 1, 2007 9:19 AM:
" manyhats,only a liberal would believe the kind of propaganda you're posting here,or think that it's fine to pick and choose which laws to obey.Where is your proof on any of this stuff you're posting?I don't buy it for one minute. "
sodapop wrote on Oct 1, 2007 9:32 AM:
" madison--You use the word "liberal" as though it is something nasty. I do think you need to have a better understanding of the word and its meaning in contemporary society. Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal. What is your problem with liberty? "
manyhats wrote on Oct 1, 2007 11:03 AM:
" For Madison, here's one more interesting source of information. It concerns the so-called "Plan Panamá Puebla," which is being pushed by Mexican President Felipe Calderón. You can read all about how the hype generated by proponants of the so-called free-trade agreements, such as NAFTA and the above-mentioned plan don't match the effects on the ground. Also, you might want to google Mexico's Article 27. Have you ever heard of it? It was an article in Mexico's national constitution that was repealed in 1993 by then President Salinas. This was done in preparation for the 1994 implementation of NAFTA. Article 27 had protected indigenous and poor farmer's rights to share and work on their lands as they had for generations. Once Article 27 was repealed their land was sold right out from under them in favor of large U.S. companies and multi-nationals who paid them next to nothing. Take the time to look up this information. It's not propaganda; it's history! "
sodapop wrote on Oct 1, 2007 12:32 PM:
" manyhats-- I have no idea what it is called in other countries but taking land from the people for the greater good is not new in the USA. It is called imminent domain and it legal in some cases and completely abused in others.---- The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which states "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation." ----Building a factory that employs many supersedes the rights of a few individuals in most cases. "
Madison wrote on Oct 1, 2007 12:32 PM:
" sodapop,thanks for the little lesson,but to me liberal is something nasty just as the term redneck is a nasty term to most people.So here's a little lesson on the trem redneck."A popular etymology says that the term derives from such individuals having a red neck caused by working outdoors in the sunlight over the course of their lifetime. The effect of decades of direct sunlight on the exposed skin of the back of the neck not only reddens fair skin, but renders it leathery and tough, and typically very wrinkled and spotted by late middle age. Similarly, some historians claim that the term redneck originated in 17th century Virginia, because indentured servants were sunburnt while tending plantation crops."So tell me why redneck has become a derogatory term? "
sodapop wrote on Oct 1, 2007 12:53 PM:
" Madison-- I was raised in the "fields" Mom pulled me on her cotton pick sack until I was old enough to walk. She spent as much time in the fields as necessary to help raise our large family. I chopped and picked cotton until I was old enough to learn how to drive farm machinery. I am well aware of what the term 'redneck' means. I just do not understand why you would consider someone who makes a living with their hands on the land as something nasty.----- My family was in this land when the Liberty loving Patriots ran the King loving Tories conservative out of the country. Give me liberty any day over the monarch-esque Bush Conservative bunch. "
Madison wrote on Oct 1, 2007 1:31 PM:
" sodapop,I don't consider anyone that makes a living with their hands on the land as nasty.I came from the same kind of family.You have missed my point.My point was that many as myself consider liberals as people who are trying to distory this country by turning it into socialism,and others use the term redneck as being racist people. "
manyhats wrote on Oct 1, 2007 1:59 PM:
" Sodapop, I understand how imminent domain works, but it is sometimes even abused here. People often don't think about how run-away development necessitates the widening of or construction of new streets. The developers get richer and you loose some or all of your land. Of course, the property owner must be reimbursed, but at times, there is a loss in value even as other housing becomes more expensive. In other words, the developer wins/you lose. In Mexico, there is no reimbursement for the loss of habitat, as far as I know. You simply have no resources left and are vulnerable to unscrupulous companies who want VERY CHEAP labor. Who would like to move there and work in the hot, tropical fields for six or eight dollars per day? To Madison all I can say is that I'd much rather see my tax money going to give undocumented immigrants some proper health care than nearly $200 billion going to support an illegal occupation of a broken country that did nothing to us. One-sixth of that amount disappears as do many of the weapons into the hands of the insurgents. The U.S. has just completed the construction of the largest embassy on Earth in Baghdad. It rivals Vatican City in size and stands in the midst of so much poverty and suffering. The price tag for that alone amounts to much more than the figure you stated. I'd rather help the immigrants any day. "
Madison wrote on Oct 1, 2007 2:33 PM:
" manyhats,funny how you understand imminent domain,but you don't understand the difference between Immigrants and Illegal Aleins.As for Iraq have you been there? My husband is there now,and has sent me pictures of some of the many palaces that Saddam Hussein had around the country.Where's your proof that we built this embassy?It's more likley one of the palaces they're using.I would rather fight terrorism in that country then here in this country.You had better open your eyes to what most of these illegal aliens want.They want us out of this country.They are the ones who are racist with their groups such as La Raza=The Race,Reconquista,Astlan,and Lulac just to mention a few. "
sodapop wrote on Oct 1, 2007 2:52 PM:
" manyhats-- I agree and think it is obscene what this administration is doing with our foreign policy.--------- I remember stories about the government taking family lands in Tennessee during the 30s. The long view for the Tennessee Valley Authority has been positive for a several state area and the power provided to the Oak Ridge Tennessee and the Manhattan Project may have helped end WWII but it did not set well for the folks who were uprooted. I don't know the answer to the problem of bringing the three nations closer under NAFTA but it is a fact of life that I see no end to. -----I had friends in Germany during the late 80s and early 90s when the two parts of Germany came together as one. It was a very complicated affair and temper flared as the two polar opposite economies were hammered into one. Some people's living conditions were elevated ans some crashed. There are similarities here. "
3744 wrote on Oct 1, 2007 7:02 PM:
" So, It's my fault that Mexicos wealthy politicians keep their people in poverty? I can't even pay my own medical bills, why should I be responsible for theirs? We send millions of dollars in aid to Mexico every year, where does it go? Into the pockets of the politicians. I read in our newpaper today they are going to spend a 100 million dollars on another High School in my town, we just built a new High School 5 years ago. Why is it my responsiblilty to educate foreign peoples? You are asking me to feel sorry for them? You are barking up the wrong tree. I have seen my hometown turned into a place that I will not live...gang graffitti on the neighborhood fences, two drug related stabbings, three blocks from my home; that was 12 years ago, I moved out. I have nothing against LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, it is the illegals that come here that I have a problem with. There would be plenty for them in Mexico if they would stop having 8 children per family. Having children when you can't afford to feed them doesn't prove you are a macho man. I overheard one of them say the other day that America belongs to the Mexican people...if it did it would still look like Mexico, a corrupt third world country that they would be tripping over themselves to get out of. "
Madison wrote on Oct 1, 2007 8:03 PM:
" manyhats,Multiculturalism does not work. The surest way to kill a country is to become multilingual and multicultural.Just how many of these illegals or even the legal immigrants do you see wanting to learn English or assimilate to to the American way of life? "
manyhats wrote on Oct 1, 2007 9:15 PM:
" Hmm.... I responded to some of the comments made here and included a link to a story about the new U.S. Embassy in Baghdad and my post seems to have disappeared; this, after checking to make sure that it posted. Perhaps we are not supposed to supply links to other stories here. That's too bad. Anyway Madison, all you will have to do is google the words, "new American Embassy" and you'll find plenty of proof. It's not a former palace, but has been built in relative secrecy. If you follow the link that Google provides to the story provided by "Common Dreams" you will also see a photo. Further, I've even seen info on this at Wikipedia. As for your contention that a country cannot be bilingual, I would have to disagree with you again. Canada has two official languages as does Ireland. Further, our own state of New Mexico has two official languages. No offense Madison, but you seem to keep repeating the same talking points that can be heard over and over again daily on conservative talk radio or Fox News. I really hope that you will do some independent research while keeping an open mind. You will be shocked at what you will find and will awaken to the fact that we are all being lied to. I provided you with several links to information on Mexico as well as that story by Steve Lendman, but these too seem to have disappeared. "
Madison wrote on Oct 1, 2007 9:39 PM:
" manyhats,what makes you think you're not the one being lied to?I know right from wrong,and what the illegals are doing is wrong.No Excusses!!!!!! "
manyhats wrote on Oct 2, 2007 10:20 AM:
" Madison asked, "manyhats,what makes you think you're not the one being lied to?" My answer is that I am a writer and independent journalist. I am involved with international networks which specialize in independent journalism. Further, I do my homework and check various sources of information against the other. Mainstream journalists, such as the White House Press Corps and those "embedded in Iraq" are little more than stenographers for the administration these days. They simply repeat the information that they have been given and do not report on inconsistencies between that which was said earlier, and the new spin. Did you look up any information on the new American Embassy that I told you about Madison? If not, why not? Did you look up any of the information I provided about NAFTA or the new North American "Partnership for Prosperity and Security" that I told you about? You haven't responded to ANY of the "proof" that I have provided and which you asked for earlier. Perhaps you'd rather not, because admitting that I am right on about these things would force you to confront the possibility that I might be right about the injustices that are driving the so-called "illegals" northward. Be that as it may, I challenge you to read about that embassy, and then tell me that it doesn't exist. The price tag for it, bye the way, is around $800 million. I hope you like your tax money being spent on such extravagance. "
manyhats wrote on Oct 2, 2007 12:30 PM:
" Oops! I have to make a correction here. The price tag for the new, 21-building embassy in Baghdad is currently at around $600 million. Some of the construction is continuing and the price is sure to continue mounting. "
sittin'duck wrote on Oct 2, 2007 1:50 PM:
" Hey manyhats,you have gotton completely off the subject here.Just another liberal trick.We all know about NAFTA and the government trying to destroy the sovereignty of this nation with a North American Union,and I would rather spend that money in Iraq on an embassy than on a bunch of illegal aliens taking this countries taxpayers for everything they can get.So how about you get back on the subject at hand here or go somewhere else. "
Numbers Lady wrote on Oct 2, 2007 3:18 PM:
" To all of you who think we are wrong to want only English spoken here, and to those of you that think we are racist because we want laws obeyed, and to those of you who think we are wrong for wanting all illegals out of our country: go home to their country and live with them. I want my country back......and don't say no one has taken it.........they already have. I hope you all NON-RACIST people are happy.......... "
Weenie wrote on Oct 2, 2007 5:53 PM:
" Where can I find out about the 21 building embassy we are building in Bagdad???? I can find out about anything I want to know on the web except this!!!!HUH. "
3744 wrote on Oct 2, 2007 6:10 PM:
" Liberals will put a spin on anything that you say to them; for instance, yesterday I asked why I should be responsible for foreign people...people who have come into this country without permission...why should I have to pay their medical bills, subsidized housing, educated their children? Liberal on line had no response, probably because he does not live where the rest of us have to live. Depressed wages are not affecting his paycheck, he is not on the verge of losing his home because his paycheck does not keep up with the cost of living. I am not seeing the price of anything drop because of their "cheap labor"; has anyone else? Any of you see the price of produce, chicken, beef, ANYTHING AT ALL go down because of "cheap labor"? No, you haven't because the corporations are putting it all in their pockets, they don't have to pay for the bills these people incur, we the taxpayers are footing the bill for their expensive price tag, while the rich get richer. "
3744 wrote on Oct 2, 2007 7:26 PM:
" Can anyone find anything about this "embassy" building in Iraq? "
manyhats wrote on Oct 2, 2007 8:11 PM:
" 3744 asked, "Can anyone find anything about this "embassy" building in Iraq?" Answer: Do you know how to use a search engine? All you have to do is go to Google and type in "New U.S. Embassy," and you will find plenty of information on it. I posted a link earlier but every time I provided links my post was deleted. 3744 also asks why he should be responsible for foreign people. Answer: Their culture and self-sufficiency is being destroyed primarily by U.S. economic and foreign policy. You are not responsible for them, but what's wrong with trying to afford them a little human dignity and understanding. If you cannot do this, then I hope that you don't attempt to call yourself a Christian. Numbers lady suggests that those who sympathize with undocumented immigrants should leave this country and go home with them. Sorry, but I was born here. This IS home. Let me get this straight now, anyone who disagrees with you should leave the country right? Your ideas sound awfully fascist to me. Since we live in a free society that supposedly honors free speech and lively debate, maybe you should leave since you cannot tolerate the exercising of my rights. I have come to the conclusion that many of you are totally irrational. As is typical when confronted with intelligent argument, you resort to demonization and attempts at intimidation. It's pathetic, really. "
sittin'duck wrote on Oct 2, 2007 8:32 PM:
" manyhats,I haven't seen an intelligent argument out of you yet.Just a bunch of liberal spin,and you being completely off topic.So tell me what's so intelligent about that? "
manyhats wrote on Oct 2, 2007 9:41 PM:
" Sittin' Duck, someone asked me if I like spending my tax money on providing services to undocumented immigrants. I replied that I'd rather do that then spend it on the construction of this grandiose embassy that is being built in Iraq. THAT'S HOW WE GOT OFF ON A TANGENT. Madison asked me how I know that I'm not the one being lied to. I replied by backing up my contentions. Unfortunately, what you all call liberal spin is an honest person's attempt to communicate his ideas to you, which apparently, you don't even want to consider. In years of trying to communicate with conservatives, I have learned one thing: They will never even consider one's well documented, and thought out ideas unless they are lockstep in agreement with the conservative point of view. You often accuse free thinkers of doing exactly the same as you yourselves do, as if looking in the mirror and then screaming "liberal liberal! I'll tell you the truth. Every day I thank God that I'm not like you people. Enough said. I'm done arguing with you all. It's absolutely pointless trying to discuss anything with you. You're either unwilling to listen, or you just don't get it. Either way, I'm tired of wasting my time on you. "
sittin'duck wrote on Oct 2, 2007 9:55 PM:
" Well it's about time manyhats.We tired of hearing from you.I Thank God everyday that I'm not a liberal,and I know right from wrong.I think the editors a little tired of you too,I see alot of your posts have been deleted.LOL "
Deacon wrote on Oct 2, 2007 10:53 PM:
" The illegals that come here because of their home countries depressed economy based on what some say the United States has or has not brought upon them is not my problem or concern. I as a citizen cannot control what the leaders of these countries do, no more than I have control over what goes on in Iraq. BUT I can let my congressman know how I will or will not vote based upon how they vote on various bills pretaining to the illegal issues. "
3744 wrote on Oct 2, 2007 10:56 PM:
" It took Americans 200 years to build this country into what it is, why can't they build up their own country instead of coming here and claiming America is theirs? We give them millions of dollars every year, and they still encourage their people to come here illegally. I am a Christian and I give as much as I can...but charity begins at home...what about our old people that can't buy their medicine if they want to eat and stay warm? What about our homeless that are wandering around with nowhere to sleep, while the illegals live in subsidized housing. What about all the people like me, who would like to get a better education so they can get a better job...but, guess what... I make too much money to get any help and not enough to pay for it on my own...but...hey, the hispanic people have no problem getting help to go school..."they only take jobs no one elso will do" Oh, really? Tell me another lie! You haven't proven to me that we have anything to do with Mexico's problem is that their government is even more corrupt than ours. If we don't stop this invasion, America will be just like Mexico...do you want to live in Mexico? I don't. Our ancestors worked hard to make sure their children wouldn't have to live like that, and now the illegals come here and act like they are entitled. "
sodapop wrote on Oct 3, 2007 9:41 AM:
" manyhats-- This is not about the politics of the USA. In many cases it is an effort to assign blame for personal failure. I heard the same thing back in the day when those blacks and women got all the jobs and promotions. I would have been somebody if only those ------[fill the blank]weren't given preferential treatment. "
Madison wrote on Oct 3, 2007 2:20 PM:
" Here's some of those peaceful hard working Hispanics preaching revolution,and taking over our country.If they want a fight I say bring it on!! We've kicked your butts before and we can and will do it again.....American Partol........
Stein Report Includes Video
UCLA rally endorses revolution inside U.S.
"Do you really know your enemy? This racist professor in UCLA knows exactly what he is talking about. Listen half way through and note the South American Countries he mentions. All leftist, all nine our enemies and all nine receiving U S tax dollars. While our elected officials are sitting on their rumps..." "
gary wrote on Oct 3, 2007 5:52 PM:
" Manyhats, I went to the site you referred to and I am amazed. 562 Million and the only U.S. project that is still on schedule. It's 100 acres, or the size of 80 football fields. It is to be totally self-suffenciant. How long have we been there and this is the first anyone has said amything about it. So it seems we are kept busy about something closer to home so govt. can spend money that could be used towards slowing down the illegal migration. "
Not already registered?
jtd498 wrote on Sep 27, 2007 8:02 AM: